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"DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks" exactly my point, now you have to push it

"DEI is very important for basically any organization that doesn't want to be known as a bunch of exclusionary jerks" exactly my point, now you have to push it or you have to be worried about being automatically labeled racist. How condescending and insulting. "it's pretty hard for any new endeavor to be equitable without taking an extremely long and hard look at how the endeavor interacts with this massive legacy" No, its not. Just welcome all, you don't have to say anything, just be good people. I hear what you are saying but I don't think the answer is to constantly harp on it and I would think make it awkward for people of that race. Hey welcome to the coop, we really support Black people here. Sure they're black but they are people first and I have to think its tiresome from their point of view to constantly be reminded that white people see them as other. Its a superior point of view, look how noble we are, protecting the minorities with our power. I am sure the intent is good but I don't think it has the result that is intended. I have to take 4+ hours of classes this month at my employer to be told that I have to treat minorities well when much like this co-op 95% of leadership is white. Its condescending and I don't just mean to me. Just don't be racist and treat people like people. I guarantee just saying this has as much impact as the 4 hours of classes I have to take and their "8th principal" One of my classes I had to take at a very, very large company told me that if I help out a minority and they get offended to not argue back, but "sit there in my shame". Its reached insanity levels and I think having the opposite effect. At what point does it start driving people that are generally center based politically further to the right. I was surprised as a generally life long liberal when it started to do that to me. I'm not voting for Trump but for the first time in my life I'm likely voting for a Republican governor primarily because of this sort of stuff. Apologies for my rant, I guess it had been on my mind.

zzzeek 4y ago
throughout your "rant" as you call it, and your concerns and personal experiences, one theme stands out that you are very concerned and fixated about how all of this is making you feel. I would propose that likely the first step in understanding anti-racist practices and attitudes is learning to think about how others feel about their experiences. "dont be racist" is not really the core of the problem, it's "listen to other people and their experiences". because you can't really, on your own, determine how to "not be racist" without listening to what the victims of actual racism have to say.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  I hear what you are saying but again, being "anti-racist" is not a concern of mine. I am not a racist and generally treat everyone I meet the same. I don't have any intention of making "Anti-racism" a part of my personality or understanding it because it is very low on my list of concerns. People are people. They get hired to do a job, I chat with them superficially about what they did during the weekend and that's it. Nothing else really matters. Heck for the most part everyone is just a white name on a black box on zoom now anyway. "because you can't really, on your own, determine how to "not be racist"" I would argue that I very much can decide on my own. I don't need anyone telling me how to do it. Respectfully, the fact you think you do is a statement about you, not me.
  - zzzeek 4y ago
    Which goes back to the original point that you probably would not like belonging to a food coop very much.
    - wonderwonder 4y ago
      lol, fair point
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Can someone decide how not to be anti-Semitic on their own?
    - wonderwonder 4y ago
      Of course, why not?
      - selimthegrim 4y ago
        You might want to tell that to among others Jeffrey Goldberg, who thinks Jews have the exclusive right to define what anti-Semitism is - Google “neocon puppet masters”
sure_about_that 4y ago
==I have to think its tiresome from their point of view to constantly be reminded that white people see them as other.== It’s interesting how you read DEI and immediately think it only applies to black people. Have you actually asked a black person what they think about it? If so, what did they say? If not, maybe you should. What are the DEI policies that you support from the Republican candidate? I’ve never heard of that type of one-issue voter.
- wonderwonder 4y ago
  The article specifically mentions black people. " It’s a bit shocking that this is still an open question for the co-op movement, especially given that the national groups are just now starting to recognize the work done by African-Americans in co-ops throughout our country’s history." "What are the DEI policies that you support from the Republican candidate? I’ve never heard of that type of one-issue voter." I am a father to 2 white optimally straight (downvote me if you like but I would prefer my kids be straight, if they are not then I love them the same) boys. I find the school systems and corporate worlds constant focus on the rights of everyone except them tiresome and worrisome. I live in Florida so going to vote for Desantis. I don't like him at all but I respect his stance on this. I am going to vote for him based on this single issue.
  - sure_about_that 4y ago
    You asked why there was an eighth principle and that is because it was adopted by credit unions [1]. It doesn’t only apply to black people. So you haven’t actually asked a black person if they are offended by it. It is in fact you who are offended by it. Makes much more sense. What exactly is DeSantis’s “stance on this”? I know he championed a bunch of laws on what teachers can do/say, and which books are acceptable to read (i.e. regulations). I’m a father to two white boys. The world seems to be treating them just fine. They don’t seem like victims, to me. [1] https://www.thenews.coop/142498/sector/credit-unions/us-credit-unions-to-include-diversity-as-the-eighth-co-operative-principle/#:~:text=Diversity%2C%20equality%20and%20inclusion%20will,credit%20unions%20across%20the%20country https://www.thenews.coop/142498/sector/credit-unions/us-cred...

zzzeek 4y ago

throughout your "rant" as you call it, and your concerns and personal experiences, one theme stands out that you are very concerned and fixated about how all of this is making you feel. I would propose that likely the first step in understanding anti-racist practices and attitudes is learning to think about how others feel about their experiences. "dont be racist" is not really the core of the problem, it's "listen to other people and their experiences". because you can't really, on your own, determine how to "not be racist" without listening to what the victims of actual racism have to say.

wonderwonder 4y ago
I hear what you are saying but again, being "anti-racist" is not a concern of mine. I am not a racist and generally treat everyone I meet the same. I don't have any intention of making "Anti-racism" a part of my personality or understanding it because it is very low on my list of concerns. People are people. They get hired to do a job, I chat with them superficially about what they did during the weekend and that's it. Nothing else really matters. Heck for the most part everyone is just a white name on a black box on zoom now anyway. "because you can't really, on your own, determine how to "not be racist"" I would argue that I very much can decide on my own. I don't need anyone telling me how to do it. Respectfully, the fact you think you do is a statement about you, not me.
- zzzeek 4y ago
  Which goes back to the original point that you probably would not like belonging to a food coop very much.
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    lol, fair point
- selimthegrim 4y ago
  Can someone decide how not to be anti-Semitic on their own?
  - wonderwonder 4y ago
    Of course, why not?
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      You might want to tell that to among others Jeffrey Goldberg, who thinks Jews have the exclusive right to define what anti-Semitism is - Google “neocon puppet masters”

sure_about_that 4y ago

==I have to think its tiresome from their point of view to constantly be reminded that white people see them as other.== It’s interesting how you read DEI and immediately think it only applies to black people. Have you actually asked a black person what they think about it? If so, what did they say? If not, maybe you should. What are the DEI policies that you support from the Republican candidate? I’ve never heard of that type of one-issue voter.

wonderwonder 4y ago
The article specifically mentions black people. " It’s a bit shocking that this is still an open question for the co-op movement, especially given that the national groups are just now starting to recognize the work done by African-Americans in co-ops throughout our country’s history." "What are the DEI policies that you support from the Republican candidate? I’ve never heard of that type of one-issue voter." I am a father to 2 white optimally straight (downvote me if you like but I would prefer my kids be straight, if they are not then I love them the same) boys. I find the school systems and corporate worlds constant focus on the rights of everyone except them tiresome and worrisome. I live in Florida so going to vote for Desantis. I don't like him at all but I respect his stance on this. I am going to vote for him based on this single issue.
- sure_about_that 4y ago
  You asked why there was an eighth principle and that is because it was adopted by credit unions [1]. It doesn’t only apply to black people. So you haven’t actually asked a black person if they are offended by it. It is in fact you who are offended by it. Makes much more sense. What exactly is DeSantis’s “stance on this”? I know he championed a bunch of laws on what teachers can do/say, and which books are acceptable to read (i.e. regulations). I’m a father to two white boys. The world seems to be treating them just fine. They don’t seem like victims, to me. [1] https://www.thenews.coop/142498/sector/credit-unions/us-credit-unions-to-include-diversity-as-the-eighth-co-operative-principle/#:~:text=Diversity%2C%20equality%20and%20inclusion%20will,credit%20unions%20across%20the%20country https://www.thenews.coop/142498/sector/credit-unions/us-cred...