7 ms·

The evolutionary adaptations oral bacteria have developed to coexist are fascinating. Another example is the known gum disease-causing species, P. gingivalis, c

by bmau5 4y ago

The evolutionary adaptations oral bacteria have developed to coexist are fascinating. Another example is the known gum disease-causing species, P. gingivalis, can suppress our adaptive immunity [1]. This finding underscores the importance of taking preventative approaches to prevent attachment of biofilm producers (and why daily hygiene is so important), and finding more approaches to biofilm destabilization, like incorporating arginine into diets and possibly oral care products [2]. Source: founder of an oral microbiome testing company [3]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122233 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5122233 [2] https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0121835 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... [3] https://www.bristlehealth.com/ https://www.bristlehealth.com/

sooheon 4y ago
Is there an ETA on global shipping?
- bmau5 4y ago
  We're working on this right now! If you send us an email at info[at]bristlehealth.com I'll send over more information shortly.
pnw 4y ago
Interesting company! Are there any commercial oral care products with arginine in them? What’s your opinion on the toothpaste with lysine supplements and the oral probiotics for gum care?
- Eisenstein 4y ago
  Is arginine necessary to apply topically to the teeth, or can it just be ingested? If the latter, you can get l-arginine supplements easily. They are also supposed to help with certain, um, circulation issues. Also, xylitol is a great biofilm disrupter. Chewing xylitol gum has been shown to be beneficial in preventing carries.
  - ParksNet 4y ago
    Its difficult to find Xylitol gum that uses traditional tree sap and not plastic resin (and also doesn't contain added sugar). Any suggestions?
    - CrHn3 4y ago
      Xylichew uses birch and beech resin and has a gum base free of plastic. To ensure I get an effective amount of xylitol, I use crystals in my tea and coffee. My child eats them with a spoon. Health Garden is one of the brands that uses birch xylitol.
      - rrdujay 4y ago
        Just mixing up Xylitol in water and swishing around is good too
      - elevaet 4y ago
        How much is effective? My dentist recommended it ages ago and I kind of forgot about it. Also, any health concerns with consuming xylitol?
        CrHn3 4y ago
        For dental caries, 6-10 grams per day [1]. Most adults can tolerate 40g. Diarrhea is a concern at 45g for children and 100g for adults. If you introduce it gradually into your diet, it should not be a problem. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4232036/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4232036/
        Eisenstein 4y ago
        Health concerns for humans is potential digestive issues at high amounts (many tends of grams). Health concerns for canines is prolonged excruciating death due to live failure in rather small amounts. Don't let your dogs near xylitol.
- bmau5 4y ago
  Thank you! There are some commercial toothpastes (like Tom's of Maine [1]) and chews (like BasicBites [2]) that contain arginine. I expect we'll see it incorporated in more products soon. RE: oral probiotics, there is some promising evidence of oral probiotics in improving oral health. We wrote a guide [3] based on the available research that might be helpful. For lysine, we're still looking into the evidence, but we're excited to see more innovation and research into oral care product ingredients that work with the oral microbiome. [1] https://www.tomsofmaine.com/our-promise/ingredients/arginine-bicarbonate https://www.tomsofmaine.com/our-promise/ingredients/arginine... [2] https://www.basicbites.com/ https://www.basicbites.com/ [3] https://www.bristlehealth.com/post/a-guide-to-oral-probiotics-and-dental-probiotics https://www.bristlehealth.com/post/a-guide-to-oral-probiotic...
thelittleone 4y ago
A fascinating field of inquiry. Digestive systems and their inhabitants have evolved over millions of years. I recently shifted my mindset to feed not just for me, but also for the ~2kg of microbiota [1] inhabiting my digestive system. Has been great for my health. [1] https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2017/april/the-gut-microbiome/ https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2017/april/the-gut-microbiome/
- miketery 4y ago
  What sort of foods do you recommend? I've heard good things about yogurt, cottage cheese, and kimchi; but don't know for certain.
  - syntheweave 4y ago
    Diluted vinegar; not a lot, not every meal, but a little bit once a day(I usually take it with canned seltzer water at dinnertime). It's the oldest recorded all-purpose tonic and it has a very clear purpose in digestive health by biasing the body's pH balance a little more acidic, which makes some foods easier to stomach, and also pushes the adaptive fitness of the gut. While the scientific framework I'm building off of is patchy, I think of the gut biome as something you have to "train up" to give effective responses instead of dumping its issues onto other regulatory mechanisms, so exposing it to a variety of training scenarios would be an instrumental part of that, and it probably wouldn't be a factor of specific foods so much as general %s of fiber, fat, acidity, salinity, etc.
  - steve_adams_86 4y ago
    It appears that probiotic foods are beneficial in isolation, but my recent reading (no singular source) indicates that it’s far more effective when combined with a varied and high fibre diet. It seems like you can do great without the probiotics too, and only ensure you have a good quantity and diversity of high fibre foods in your diet. This seems to be the cornerstone of enriching and sustaining gut biodiversity. A lot of people think they have the fibre part down, but the science suggests most of us are nowhere near adequate intake. Around 40 grams seems like the minimum, but if you can go higher, there doesn’t appear to be a disadvantage, but there could be more benefits. A key factor here is that fibre from whole foods is far more beneficial to the gut flora. If it’s highly processed, it’ll move through the gut too quickly. It’ll help you move stool in the case of something like metamucil, but your gut won’t derive much benefit from it otherwise. Off the top of my head, some excellent gut foods are: - whole grains with the hull intact (oats are great) - all legumes - avocados - berries - many nuts and seeds, but especially chia, flax, sunflower, pistachio, walnut, coconut I land somewhere around 65 grams per day, but I’d like to do better. In the USA, the average is around 16 grams. It’s nowhere near enough to support proper intestinal motility and robust, diverse flora. Definitely eat probiotic foods, but include as many whole, high fibre foods as you can too.
colordrops 4y ago
Doesn't arginine also stimulate the herpes virus? Seems that integrating it into diets could have the opposite of the intended effect for some people.
- idealmedtech 4y ago
  Interactions like these are why medicine always feels 30 years behind technology.
clumsysmurf 4y ago
What do you think of mouth washes that contains Cetylpyridinium Chloride (CPC)? I was reading they may help inactivate SARS-Cov-2 in saliva. I wonder though about (1) killing everything in the mouth or (2) providing oral probiotics (I take one from Life Extension). "Cetylpyridinium chloride (CPC), a quaternary ammonium compound, which is present in mouthwash, is effective against bacteria, fungi, and enveloped viruses. ... Interestingly, we found that low concentrations of CPC suppressed the infectivity of human isolated SARS-CoV-2 strains (Wuhan, Alpha, Beta, and Gamma) even in saliva." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-18367-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-18367-6 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34282982/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34282982/
- basicplus2 4y ago
  Never use toothpaste that contains triclosan as it wipes out your gut bacteria if you swallow any and nobody can prevent swallowing any.
- diob 4y ago
  If I don't use mouth wash I end up getting ulcers all over my mouth. It's strange, not sure why but my mouth can't handle living without it.
  - psychphysic 4y ago
    You're not rinsing your mouth out after brushing are you? For most spitting but not rinsing is as good as mouth wash.
    - reneherse 4y ago
      Surely rinsing out the debris dislodged during the brushing process is preferrable to letting it remain in the mouth.
      - yencabulator 4y ago
        No, the current day advice really is to let whatever toothpaste is in your mouth after spitting just stay there.
culi 4y ago
I think a very interesting field of inquiry into oral microbiota is a broad evolutionary approach. There was a study published in Nature Genetics[0] showing big changes in oral microbiota corresponding with Neolithic and Industrial dietary change. Modern oral microbiota are markedly less diverse than historic populations and the, much more developed, study of the gut microbiome shows us that very microbial diversity very often corresponds with usually-commensal microbes becoming pathogenic. It seems that cariogenic bacteria became dominant, apparently during the Industrial Revolution.[0] But we know that pre-Neolithic hominins very rarely had caries.[1] Despite affecting anywhere between 60-90% of schoolchildren in industrialized nations, less than 3% of P. robustus specimens examined had dental caries.[1] What's MOST fascinating to me is that this dance isn't just our mouths vs the microbiomes. There's now considerable evidence that it is more likely to be the host response to the bacteria that leads to the tissue changes noted in gingivitis and periodontitis[2] [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3996550/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3996550/ [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000399699090185D?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000399... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692012/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692012/
- alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
  >> There was a study published in Nature Genetics[0] showing big changes in oral microbiota corresponding with Neolithic and Industrial dietary change. A different diet leads to a different microbiome. I think mammals' teeth last long enough for a natural life. Of course we want a longer and better life. For instance, all my dogs by age 13 yo have lost half their teeth to rot. We are terrible owners who don't take care of their dental hygiene, which I suppose makes it a more "natural" evolution. Old horses also lose their teeth, too.
  - kodah 4y ago
    > We are terrible owners who don't take care of their dental hygiene Rope toys are great for cleaning their teeth continuously if you don't feel like brushing them. You will need to throw the toys away once a year though.
dr_dshiv 4y ago
1. I heard that oral health either predicts or is a causal effect in dementia and Alzheimer’s. What’s the mechanism? 2. Should we be having micro biome implants? And more ridiculously, but not really, should we have “celebrity micro biome” products?
- forgotmypw17 4y ago
  I think a good beginning would be figuring out how to help balance the microbiome rather than destroying it routinely.
- ephbit 4y ago
  Concerning 1. The above mentioned [1] species P. gingivalis is suspected to be a link there. [2] [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33158019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33158019 [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dementia#Dental_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dementia#Dental_health
TaylorAlexander 4y ago
I don’t know much about this but doesn’t arginine increase likelihood of cold sore outbreaks? This would be an unfortunate side effect of encouraging people to consume more arginine.
Traubenfuchs 4y ago
Scared of biofilms? Just take ambroxol, acetylcysteine and Loratadine.
gnoppa 4y ago
What do you recommend as a generic approach to improve the oral microbiota without test?

by bmau5 4y ago

sooheon 4y ago

Is there an ETA on global shipping?

bmau5 4y ago
We're working on this right now! If you send us an email at info[at]bristlehealth.com I'll send over more information shortly.

pnw 4y ago

Interesting company! Are there any commercial oral care products with arginine in them? What’s your opinion on the toothpaste with lysine supplements and the oral probiotics for gum care?

Eisenstein 4y ago
Is arginine necessary to apply topically to the teeth, or can it just be ingested? If the latter, you can get l-arginine supplements easily. They are also supposed to help with certain, um, circulation issues. Also, xylitol is a great biofilm disrupter. Chewing xylitol gum has been shown to be beneficial in preventing carries.
- ParksNet 4y ago
  Its difficult to find Xylitol gum that uses traditional tree sap and not plastic resin (and also doesn't contain added sugar). Any suggestions?
  - CrHn3 4y ago
    Xylichew uses birch and beech resin and has a gum base free of plastic. To ensure I get an effective amount of xylitol, I use crystals in my tea and coffee. My child eats them with a spoon. Health Garden is one of the brands that uses birch xylitol.
    - rrdujay 4y ago
      Just mixing up Xylitol in water and swishing around is good too
    - elevaet 4y ago
      How much is effective? My dentist recommended it ages ago and I kind of forgot about it. Also, any health concerns with consuming xylitol?
      - CrHn3 4y ago
        For dental caries, 6-10 grams per day [1]. Most adults can tolerate 40g. Diarrhea is a concern at 45g for children and 100g for adults. If you introduce it gradually into your diet, it should not be a problem. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4232036/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4232036/
      - Eisenstein 4y ago
        Health concerns for humans is potential digestive issues at high amounts (many tends of grams). Health concerns for canines is prolonged excruciating death due to live failure in rather small amounts. Don't let your dogs near xylitol.
bmau5 4y ago
Thank you! There are some commercial toothpastes (like Tom's of Maine [1]) and chews (like BasicBites [2]) that contain arginine. I expect we'll see it incorporated in more products soon. RE: oral probiotics, there is some promising evidence of oral probiotics in improving oral health. We wrote a guide [3] based on the available research that might be helpful. For lysine, we're still looking into the evidence, but we're excited to see more innovation and research into oral care product ingredients that work with the oral microbiome. [1] https://www.tomsofmaine.com/our-promise/ingredients/arginine-bicarbonate https://www.tomsofmaine.com/our-promise/ingredients/arginine... [2] https://www.basicbites.com/ https://www.basicbites.com/ [3] https://www.bristlehealth.com/post/a-guide-to-oral-probiotics-and-dental-probiotics https://www.bristlehealth.com/post/a-guide-to-oral-probiotic...

thelittleone 4y ago

A fascinating field of inquiry. Digestive systems and their inhabitants have evolved over millions of years. I recently shifted my mindset to feed not just for me, but also for the ~2kg of microbiota [1] inhabiting my digestive system. Has been great for my health. [1] https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2017/april/the-gut-microbiome/ https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2017/april/the-gut-microbiome/

miketery 4y ago
What sort of foods do you recommend? I've heard good things about yogurt, cottage cheese, and kimchi; but don't know for certain.
- syntheweave 4y ago
  Diluted vinegar; not a lot, not every meal, but a little bit once a day(I usually take it with canned seltzer water at dinnertime). It's the oldest recorded all-purpose tonic and it has a very clear purpose in digestive health by biasing the body's pH balance a little more acidic, which makes some foods easier to stomach, and also pushes the adaptive fitness of the gut. While the scientific framework I'm building off of is patchy, I think of the gut biome as something you have to "train up" to give effective responses instead of dumping its issues onto other regulatory mechanisms, so exposing it to a variety of training scenarios would be an instrumental part of that, and it probably wouldn't be a factor of specific foods so much as general %s of fiber, fat, acidity, salinity, etc.
- steve_adams_86 4y ago
  It appears that probiotic foods are beneficial in isolation, but my recent reading (no singular source) indicates that it’s far more effective when combined with a varied and high fibre diet. It seems like you can do great without the probiotics too, and only ensure you have a good quantity and diversity of high fibre foods in your diet. This seems to be the cornerstone of enriching and sustaining gut biodiversity. A lot of people think they have the fibre part down, but the science suggests most of us are nowhere near adequate intake. Around 40 grams seems like the minimum, but if you can go higher, there doesn’t appear to be a disadvantage, but there could be more benefits. A key factor here is that fibre from whole foods is far more beneficial to the gut flora. If it’s highly processed, it’ll move through the gut too quickly. It’ll help you move stool in the case of something like metamucil, but your gut won’t derive much benefit from it otherwise. Off the top of my head, some excellent gut foods are: - whole grains with the hull intact (oats are great) - all legumes - avocados - berries - many nuts and seeds, but especially chia, flax, sunflower, pistachio, walnut, coconut I land somewhere around 65 grams per day, but I’d like to do better. In the USA, the average is around 16 grams. It’s nowhere near enough to support proper intestinal motility and robust, diverse flora. Definitely eat probiotic foods, but include as many whole, high fibre foods as you can too.

colordrops 4y ago

Doesn't arginine also stimulate the herpes virus? Seems that integrating it into diets could have the opposite of the intended effect for some people.

idealmedtech 4y ago
Interactions like these are why medicine always feels 30 years behind technology.

clumsysmurf 4y ago

What do you think of mouth washes that contains Cetylpyridinium Chloride (CPC)? I was reading they may help inactivate SARS-Cov-2 in saliva. I wonder though about (1) killing everything in the mouth or (2) providing oral probiotics (I take one from Life Extension). "Cetylpyridinium chloride (CPC), a quaternary ammonium compound, which is present in mouthwash, is effective against bacteria, fungi, and enveloped viruses. ... Interestingly, we found that low concentrations of CPC suppressed the infectivity of human isolated SARS-CoV-2 strains (Wuhan, Alpha, Beta, and Gamma) even in saliva." https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-18367-6 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-18367-6 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34282982/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34282982/

basicplus2 4y ago
Never use toothpaste that contains triclosan as it wipes out your gut bacteria if you swallow any and nobody can prevent swallowing any.
diob 4y ago
If I don't use mouth wash I end up getting ulcers all over my mouth. It's strange, not sure why but my mouth can't handle living without it.
- psychphysic 4y ago
  You're not rinsing your mouth out after brushing are you? For most spitting but not rinsing is as good as mouth wash.
  - reneherse 4y ago
    Surely rinsing out the debris dislodged during the brushing process is preferrable to letting it remain in the mouth.
    - yencabulator 4y ago
      No, the current day advice really is to let whatever toothpaste is in your mouth after spitting just stay there.

culi 4y ago

I think a very interesting field of inquiry into oral microbiota is a broad evolutionary approach. There was a study published in Nature Genetics[0] showing big changes in oral microbiota corresponding with Neolithic and Industrial dietary change. Modern oral microbiota are markedly less diverse than historic populations and the, much more developed, study of the gut microbiome shows us that very microbial diversity very often corresponds with usually-commensal microbes becoming pathogenic. It seems that cariogenic bacteria became dominant, apparently during the Industrial Revolution.[0] But we know that pre-Neolithic hominins very rarely had caries.[1] Despite affecting anywhere between 60-90% of schoolchildren in industrialized nations, less than 3% of P. robustus specimens examined had dental caries.[1] What's MOST fascinating to me is that this dance isn't just our mouths vs the microbiomes. There's now considerable evidence that it is more likely to be the host response to the bacteria that leads to the tissue changes noted in gingivitis and periodontitis[2] [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3996550/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3996550/ [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000399699090185D?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/000399... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692012/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692012/

alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
>> There was a study published in Nature Genetics[0] showing big changes in oral microbiota corresponding with Neolithic and Industrial dietary change. A different diet leads to a different microbiome. I think mammals' teeth last long enough for a natural life. Of course we want a longer and better life. For instance, all my dogs by age 13 yo have lost half their teeth to rot. We are terrible owners who don't take care of their dental hygiene, which I suppose makes it a more "natural" evolution. Old horses also lose their teeth, too.
- kodah 4y ago
  > We are terrible owners who don't take care of their dental hygiene Rope toys are great for cleaning their teeth continuously if you don't feel like brushing them. You will need to throw the toys away once a year though.

dr_dshiv 4y ago

1. I heard that oral health either predicts or is a causal effect in dementia and Alzheimer’s. What’s the mechanism? 2. Should we be having micro biome implants? And more ridiculously, but not really, should we have “celebrity micro biome” products?

forgotmypw17 4y ago
I think a good beginning would be figuring out how to help balance the microbiome rather than destroying it routinely.
ephbit 4y ago
Concerning 1. The above mentioned [1] species P. gingivalis is suspected to be a link there. [2] [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33158019 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33158019 [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dementia#Dental_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dementia#Dental_health

TaylorAlexander 4y ago

I don’t know much about this but doesn’t arginine increase likelihood of cold sore outbreaks? This would be an unfortunate side effect of encouraging people to consume more arginine.

Traubenfuchs 4y ago

Scared of biofilms? Just take ambroxol, acetylcysteine and Loratadine.

gnoppa 4y ago

What do you recommend as a generic approach to improve the oral microbiota without test?