5 ms·

Has anyone had luck getting decent GUI performance (macOS host, Linux guest)? I don't need 3D, just sane 2D performance. The last time I tried this, it was so

Has anyone had luck getting decent GUI performance (macOS host, Linux guest)? I don't need 3D, just sane 2D performance. The last time I tried this, it was so bad that I had to drastically decrease the window size to get reasonable performance. As in, it would basically lock up above a certain window size, and no reasonable amount of waiting would get it to respond. (And yes, I fiddled with all of the obvious knobs for CPU/memory/graphics/etc.) I figure in this day and age of AWS and the like, we should have very, very good open source virtualization software, but no amount of fiddling seems to get it to work well for me.

SrslyJosh 4y ago
I don't know how the perf is, but this might be of interest: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/running_gui_linux_in_a_virtual_machine_on_a_mac https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run... (Note: This is for the next major release of Mac OS.)
- naikrovek 4y ago
  github.com/cirruslabs/tart is a command-line tool which makes this whole VM thing very easy on MacOS starting with Ventura.
  - smaccona 4y ago
    Is there an equivalent of this for Intel Macs?
    - Cu3PO42 4y ago
      The above framework (Virtualization.framework) provided by Apple is not restricted to AArch64, it's supported on Intel Macs. I'm honestly not sure why a CLI tool would make that restriction, or if it even is a true restriction rather than an error in documentation. In any case, vftool is another CLI and works fine on Intel Macs, but has not yet been updated for graphical VMs.
      - naikrovek 4y ago
        Linux with GUI is only available on MacOS 13 and higher, I guess. GitHub has a fair few projects which can do Linux VMs with command-line access to the guest.
theevilsharpie 4y ago
The only way I've been able to get good virtualized 2D performance without providing a GPU directly to the VM has been to use a display manager where you can disable compositing. Otherwise, you end up having to use a software 3D rasterizer like LLVMpipe, which can be quite slow. The native display managers for XFCE, MATE, and (I believe) KDE allow you to disable compositing. GNOME and Unity's native display managers don't (AFAIK). I have no idea if display compositing can be disabled on macOS.
- RainaRelanah 4y ago
  Check out VirGL and the virtio-gpu projects. Is already available in qemu if you're willing to do some work. Virtualized OpenGL (and soon Vulkan?) access to the host GPU inside the VM. e: my memory slips me, I've already run vulkan apps in qemu. > [lexi@arch-steam ~]$ vkcube > Selected GPU 0: Virtio-GPU Venus (Intel(R) UHD Graphics (CML GT2)), type: 1 Granted this was ChromeOS[0], but ultimately it's the same qemu. You just need the right flags and for the guest to have a mesa driver aware of virtio-gpu. 0. https://chromeunboxed.com/how-to-enable-vulkan-crostini/ https://chromeunboxed.com/how-to-enable-vulkan-crostini/
  - madushan1000 4y ago
    Chromeos uses crosvm, not qemu. Qemu uses virgl to provide opengl, but I think vulkan is still in the works. You can use crosvm on Linux too,works pretty well, it uses a newer version of virgl to provide vulkan.
- Eduard 4y ago
  Have you setup the "VirtualBox guest additions" inside your guest?
okigan 4y ago
I had an issue thinking UI was slow, but it turned up that mouse pointer integration issue - simple check: get a USB mouse and inject that USB device into VM. Still not as good (as I remember VMware would provide), but better! BTW, tested 7.0 just now -- anecdotally Ubuntu's UI does not feel any faster and somehow still depends on the resolution not the size of the window being moved
stjohnswarts 4y ago
If you want great video performance you are doing it wrong. You can watch videos probably but I've never gotten good sound performance out of it. Most of my development is backend and web and it's fine for that. You absolutely have to not skimp on ram, cores, and need at least an SSD. I find it acceptable for what I do (rust windows programming) when I give it enough cpus on the 8 core system. Sure it's not straightup native but it's okay. You have obviously install all the guest additions (open source ones) to get about the best you're going to expect.
sturadnidge 4y ago
I discovered a few days ago that VMware now offer a 'Fusion 12 Player', which is free (as in beer) albeit you have to register to get the download + key. Might be worth looking into that?
- wila 4y ago
  Hi Stu :) The link for that is here [0]. The only thing I would add to that is to use a private browser session. Also as a tip fill in "None" for business name, if you are using it privately - as it is a required field for some ffing reason. But yes, the free VMware Fusion Player works fine. [0] https://vmware.com/go/get-fusionplayer-key https://vmware.com/go/get-fusionplayer-key
  - sturadnidge 4y ago
    wow - long time Wil :) Good to see you're still knocking around these parts!
    - wila 4y ago
      hehe.. I was thinking the same. Hope you are doing well.
- ridgered4 4y ago
  Vmware has the best implementation of a paravirtualized GPU IMO, and has for probably a decade. Somehow this rarely comes up, but VMware itself seems to only begrudgingly want to sell their workstation products at this point.
jandrese 4y ago
It might have been because the guest was trying to do 3D compositing without acceleration. 3D acceleration was in really bad shape in VirtualBox 6, being completely unusable on nVidia cards and buggy elsewhere. The release notes say they finally fixed it so I'm excited to give it another shot.
pdntspa 4y ago
GUI performance was never great, but neither was it that bad either. Certainly nothing like you've described. This is with Windows and Linux hosts, running Linux or BSD guests
justsomehnguy 4y ago
Use VNC/RDP to connect to the guest.
Derbasti 4y ago
I use 4K screens. Virtualbox is literally unusable at those resolutions. I have to run VMs at 1080p and upscale them in Virtualbox. At 4k, simple actions such as opening the start menu take several seconds. VMWare does this much better, but is a pain to run on up-to-date kernels. The situation sucks, is what I'm saying.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Did you try KVM? I'm using that for servers so I've never tried this particular usecase but I'm very happy with it overall.
NavinF 4y ago
GPU passthrough or weep. This is why VMs are so rare on consumer devices.

SrslyJosh 4y ago

I don't know how the perf is, but this might be of interest: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/running_gui_linux_in_a_virtual_machine_on_a_mac https://developer.apple.com/documentation/virtualization/run... (Note: This is for the next major release of Mac OS.)

naikrovek 4y ago
github.com/cirruslabs/tart is a command-line tool which makes this whole VM thing very easy on MacOS starting with Ventura.
- smaccona 4y ago
  Is there an equivalent of this for Intel Macs?
  - Cu3PO42 4y ago
    The above framework (Virtualization.framework) provided by Apple is not restricted to AArch64, it's supported on Intel Macs. I'm honestly not sure why a CLI tool would make that restriction, or if it even is a true restriction rather than an error in documentation. In any case, vftool is another CLI and works fine on Intel Macs, but has not yet been updated for graphical VMs.
    - naikrovek 4y ago
      Linux with GUI is only available on MacOS 13 and higher, I guess. GitHub has a fair few projects which can do Linux VMs with command-line access to the guest.

theevilsharpie 4y ago

The only way I've been able to get good virtualized 2D performance without providing a GPU directly to the VM has been to use a display manager where you can disable compositing. Otherwise, you end up having to use a software 3D rasterizer like LLVMpipe, which can be quite slow. The native display managers for XFCE, MATE, and (I believe) KDE allow you to disable compositing. GNOME and Unity's native display managers don't (AFAIK). I have no idea if display compositing can be disabled on macOS.

RainaRelanah 4y ago
Check out VirGL and the virtio-gpu projects. Is already available in qemu if you're willing to do some work. Virtualized OpenGL (and soon Vulkan?) access to the host GPU inside the VM. e: my memory slips me, I've already run vulkan apps in qemu. > [lexi@arch-steam ~]$ vkcube > Selected GPU 0: Virtio-GPU Venus (Intel(R) UHD Graphics (CML GT2)), type: 1 Granted this was ChromeOS[0], but ultimately it's the same qemu. You just need the right flags and for the guest to have a mesa driver aware of virtio-gpu. 0. https://chromeunboxed.com/how-to-enable-vulkan-crostini/ https://chromeunboxed.com/how-to-enable-vulkan-crostini/
- madushan1000 4y ago
  Chromeos uses crosvm, not qemu. Qemu uses virgl to provide opengl, but I think vulkan is still in the works. You can use crosvm on Linux too,works pretty well, it uses a newer version of virgl to provide vulkan.
Eduard 4y ago
Have you setup the "VirtualBox guest additions" inside your guest?

okigan 4y ago

I had an issue thinking UI was slow, but it turned up that mouse pointer integration issue - simple check: get a USB mouse and inject that USB device into VM. Still not as good (as I remember VMware would provide), but better! BTW, tested 7.0 just now -- anecdotally Ubuntu's UI does not feel any faster and somehow still depends on the resolution not the size of the window being moved

stjohnswarts 4y ago

If you want great video performance you are doing it wrong. You can watch videos probably but I've never gotten good sound performance out of it. Most of my development is backend and web and it's fine for that. You absolutely have to not skimp on ram, cores, and need at least an SSD. I find it acceptable for what I do (rust windows programming) when I give it enough cpus on the 8 core system. Sure it's not straightup native but it's okay. You have obviously install all the guest additions (open source ones) to get about the best you're going to expect.

sturadnidge 4y ago

I discovered a few days ago that VMware now offer a 'Fusion 12 Player', which is free (as in beer) albeit you have to register to get the download + key. Might be worth looking into that?

wila 4y ago
Hi Stu :) The link for that is here [0]. The only thing I would add to that is to use a private browser session. Also as a tip fill in "None" for business name, if you are using it privately - as it is a required field for some ffing reason. But yes, the free VMware Fusion Player works fine. [0] https://vmware.com/go/get-fusionplayer-key https://vmware.com/go/get-fusionplayer-key
- sturadnidge 4y ago
  wow - long time Wil :) Good to see you're still knocking around these parts!
  - wila 4y ago
    hehe.. I was thinking the same. Hope you are doing well.
ridgered4 4y ago
Vmware has the best implementation of a paravirtualized GPU IMO, and has for probably a decade. Somehow this rarely comes up, but VMware itself seems to only begrudgingly want to sell their workstation products at this point.

jandrese 4y ago

It might have been because the guest was trying to do 3D compositing without acceleration. 3D acceleration was in really bad shape in VirtualBox 6, being completely unusable on nVidia cards and buggy elsewhere. The release notes say they finally fixed it so I'm excited to give it another shot.

pdntspa 4y ago

GUI performance was never great, but neither was it that bad either. Certainly nothing like you've described. This is with Windows and Linux hosts, running Linux or BSD guests

justsomehnguy 4y ago

Use VNC/RDP to connect to the guest.

Derbasti 4y ago

I use 4K screens. Virtualbox is literally unusable at those resolutions. I have to run VMs at 1080p and upscale them in Virtualbox. At 4k, simple actions such as opening the start menu take several seconds. VMWare does this much better, but is a pain to run on up-to-date kernels. The situation sucks, is what I'm saying.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Did you try KVM? I'm using that for servers so I've never tried this particular usecase but I'm very happy with it overall.

NavinF 4y ago

GPU passthrough or weep. This is why VMs are so rare on consumer devices.