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I think where we disagree is whether there is a large enough demand for these non-physical games. VR is selling bad enough as it is. Having seen friends drop

I think where we disagree is whether there is a large enough demand for these non-physical games. VR is selling bad enough as it is. Having seen friends drop out of VR for various reasons, I believe that the main draw, more so than immersion and more so than social presence, _is_ the physical movement. Oculus' top sellers list seems to confirm that belief. I'm not denying that there is demand outside of exergames, but contrary to the articles clickbaity headline, they're not "the point". Edit: *Currenty. This will change once VR becomes accessible and comfortable.

falcolas 4y ago
I'm afraid that I don't understand the link between people dropping out of VR and a lack of good games requiring physical movement. As you said yourself, the top lists are dominated by those games. Not because they're superior, but because you can already play non-physical games on other consoles (PS5/Switch/Xbox, computers, phones, etc). I'd even go so far to say that the lack of non-physical games is the biggest detriment to the continued adoption of VR. Stick with me for a moment as I reason this through. Even the most fit player can only spend an hour or two playing physical VR games. What we do when our body is exhausted from exercising in VR, yet we want to play games some more? We go play more traditional games on a monitor or TV (or phone). Why do we change which entertainment device we're using? Because the non-physical games we want to play are not available in a VR setting. We can't play angry birds, Call of Duty, Hades, Genshin Impact, or FFXIV in VR. Thus, we must have at least two consoles. Which for most people means they'll have just one console, because consoles are expensive. And logically, that means most people will go for the non-VR console, since it has more games, by several magnitudes. In contrast, if our entire library of games was available via your VR headset - even as a "you're sitting in a theater" experience - I believe many would be happy to play them there. They could get their full experience with one console.
- SebastianKra 4y ago
  > I'm afraid that I don't understand the link between people dropping out of VR and a lack of good games requiring physical movement. My argument is, that only these physical games are what currently sells VR, while the other experiences are not worth the current drawbacks. > I'd even go so far to say that the lack of non-physical games is the biggest detriment to the continued adoption of VR. If that was true, wouldn't the available non-physical games sell far better? Without knowing the numbers, Moss, Hellblade, and Lucky's Tale all didn't seem to make a huge splash. Developers of Subnautica and Everspace have abandoned their VR versions due to lack of interest. Additionally, I've consistently seen my friends chose 2D screens for games like Payday and IL-2 over VR. Again, I want to underscore "currently". I believe in a future where VR becomes a primary display. > Even the most fit player can only spend an hour or two playing physical VR games. With this, and the sibling comments about the danger of injury, I'm a bit surprised at how cynical you are regarding the average health. I wouldn't call myself remarkably fit, but I can and have played for five hours. I'm also interested to see how all these teens fare growing up with the device. I imagine they will have an exceptional awareness of both worlds.
  - lalopalota 4y ago
    >> I'd even go so far to say that the lack of non-physical games is the biggest detriment to the continued adoption of VR. > If that was true, wouldn't the available non-physical games sell far better? No. People who dont want / cant play the physical games aren't going to buy a VR system just to play the few subpar non-physical games.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    See, I view the target market as more than just young affluent individuals. I think VR can be and should be for everyone. Young and old. Rich and poor. Able bodied and not. Which means things like accessibility and a broad variety of games is paramount to its long term success. Anyways, have a good night.

falcolas 4y ago

I'm afraid that I don't understand the link between people dropping out of VR and a lack of good games requiring physical movement. As you said yourself, the top lists are dominated by those games. Not because they're superior, but because you can already play non-physical games on other consoles (PS5/Switch/Xbox, computers, phones, etc). I'd even go so far to say that the lack of non-physical games is the biggest detriment to the continued adoption of VR. Stick with me for a moment as I reason this through. Even the most fit player can only spend an hour or two playing physical VR games. What we do when our body is exhausted from exercising in VR, yet we want to play games some more? We go play more traditional games on a monitor or TV (or phone). Why do we change which entertainment device we're using? Because the non-physical games we want to play are not available in a VR setting. We can't play angry birds, Call of Duty, Hades, Genshin Impact, or FFXIV in VR. Thus, we must have at least two consoles. Which for most people means they'll have just one console, because consoles are expensive. And logically, that means most people will go for the non-VR console, since it has more games, by several magnitudes. In contrast, if our entire library of games was available via your VR headset - even as a "you're sitting in a theater" experience - I believe many would be happy to play them there. They could get their full experience with one console.

SebastianKra 4y ago
> I'm afraid that I don't understand the link between people dropping out of VR and a lack of good games requiring physical movement. My argument is, that only these physical games are what currently sells VR, while the other experiences are not worth the current drawbacks. > I'd even go so far to say that the lack of non-physical games is the biggest detriment to the continued adoption of VR. If that was true, wouldn't the available non-physical games sell far better? Without knowing the numbers, Moss, Hellblade, and Lucky's Tale all didn't seem to make a huge splash. Developers of Subnautica and Everspace have abandoned their VR versions due to lack of interest. Additionally, I've consistently seen my friends chose 2D screens for games like Payday and IL-2 over VR. Again, I want to underscore "currently". I believe in a future where VR becomes a primary display. > Even the most fit player can only spend an hour or two playing physical VR games. With this, and the sibling comments about the danger of injury, I'm a bit surprised at how cynical you are regarding the average health. I wouldn't call myself remarkably fit, but I can and have played for five hours. I'm also interested to see how all these teens fare growing up with the device. I imagine they will have an exceptional awareness of both worlds.
- lalopalota 4y ago
  >> I'd even go so far to say that the lack of non-physical games is the biggest detriment to the continued adoption of VR. > If that was true, wouldn't the available non-physical games sell far better? No. People who dont want / cant play the physical games aren't going to buy a VR system just to play the few subpar non-physical games.
- falcolas 4y ago
  See, I view the target market as more than just young affluent individuals. I think VR can be and should be for everyone. Young and old. Rich and poor. Able bodied and not. Which means things like accessibility and a broad variety of games is paramount to its long term success. Anyways, have a good night.