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> a classic Ponzi scheme wrapped in a cloak of crypto. That's just Ponzi wrapped in Ponzi, innit?

by klyrs 4y ago

FireBeyond 4y ago
I'm just going to straight up call my crypto scam Pyramid^2. "I mean what did you expect when you bought in, based on the name?!?"
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  Not when I steal all your customers and start a competing Pyramid^3 service!
  - pnemonic 4y ago
    So you're calling it a "Collateralized Ponzi Obligation"?
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  Have you heard of PonziCoin? Similar concept, except the creator stupidly made actual, functioning smart contracts for it which people bought.
throw101010 4y ago
Not by the common definition of a Ponzi scheme. This oversimplification of crypto as a whole on Hacker News is really disappointing each time I see it.
- Test0129 4y ago
  It's not an oversimplification if it is a common use case. Yes, the crypto purist will cringe at considering the entire system a ponzi but if you're that deep into crypto you probably can't see outside. From the outside perspective, even among technically competent people, crypto has gone from a really cool "FOSS finance" type thing to basically exclusively being used to part morons from their money. That's not even to begin talking about the relative volatility in something that will allegedly replace cash. While true that it is not crypto as a whole, by-and-large the nature of crypto has been reduced to a scam/crime currency. The community at large who loves crypto should really be doing more to stop every person with a modest twitter following from performing a successful rugpull since now the governments want to be involved.
  - kmacdough 4y ago
    There's a huge difference being "commonly used for" and "is a". The vast majority of emails and phone calls are spam. But it would be naive to call either of them - particularly email - fundamentally spam services. Just because people leverage the hype & mostly unregulated nature of most crypto, doesn't make it innately a ponzi scheme. Yes it's a mess. Yes it needs better regulation. Yes, a large number of "use-cases" are better served by existing solutions. But this is mostly because we're still very early in a slow-burning hype-cycle. There are some fundamentally unique services supplied by (some) currencies, like Ethereum smart contracts (e.g. de-centralized escrow), that enable fundamentally new and useful interactions. It is precisely these features which give (some) currencies innate value beyond speculation. I personally plan on waiting for the hype cycle to shake out a bit longer before I get too involved.
    - mrbombastic 4y ago
      It has been 14 years since the bitcoin white paper, how long will we be in the early stages of crypto? On unique use cases, maybe but I am convinced the vast majority of crypto usage today falls in 2 camps 1) those speculating to make a quick buck 2) believers who want crypto to work Both of these camps are working against mass adoption. 1) because for a speculative investment to be successful it must go up, and who wants to spend a currency they think will go up? Remember that guy who bought pizza with his bitcoin? What an idiot right, he traded currency for food?!? 2) the believers hold decentralization as above all else and see crypto as much a political tool as a product, they will sacrifice efficiency and convenience for this, the majority of people in the world won’t.
      - TakeBlaster16 4y ago
        I said the same thing in 1983: it's been 14 years since ARPANET, how long will we be in the early stages of the internet? It took 50 years of hard work before the day came when you could order a burrito from your couch. Sometimes change takes a generation or two. Be patient.
        4y ago
someguydave 4y ago
No. Someone holding bitcoin is not the same as someone convincing others to invest in a wholly controlled fund in which you pay for withdrawals with new investment money.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- klyrs 4y ago
  Of course not; the person holding the coin is a mark.
  - someguydave 4y ago
    Can you explain in this thought-framework which asset markets are not ponzis?

> a classic Ponzi scheme wrapped in a cloak of crypto. That's just Ponzi wrapped in Ponzi, innit?

by klyrs 4y ago

> a classic Ponzi scheme wrapped in a cloak of crypto. That's just Ponzi wrapped in Ponzi, innit?

I'm just going to straight up call my crypto scam Pyramid^2. "I mean what did you expect when you bought in, based on the name?!?"

idiotsecant 4y ago
Not when I steal all your customers and start a competing Pyramid^3 service!
- pnemonic 4y ago
  So you're calling it a "Collateralized Ponzi Obligation"?
AussieWog93 4y ago
Have you heard of PonziCoin? Similar concept, except the creator stupidly made actual, functioning smart contracts for it which people bought.

throw101010 4y ago

Not by the common definition of a Ponzi scheme. This oversimplification of crypto as a whole on Hacker News is really disappointing each time I see it.

Test0129 4y ago
It's not an oversimplification if it is a common use case. Yes, the crypto purist will cringe at considering the entire system a ponzi but if you're that deep into crypto you probably can't see outside. From the outside perspective, even among technically competent people, crypto has gone from a really cool "FOSS finance" type thing to basically exclusively being used to part morons from their money. That's not even to begin talking about the relative volatility in something that will allegedly replace cash. While true that it is not crypto as a whole, by-and-large the nature of crypto has been reduced to a scam/crime currency. The community at large who loves crypto should really be doing more to stop every person with a modest twitter following from performing a successful rugpull since now the governments want to be involved.
- kmacdough 4y ago
  There's a huge difference being "commonly used for" and "is a". The vast majority of emails and phone calls are spam. But it would be naive to call either of them - particularly email - fundamentally spam services. Just because people leverage the hype & mostly unregulated nature of most crypto, doesn't make it innately a ponzi scheme. Yes it's a mess. Yes it needs better regulation. Yes, a large number of "use-cases" are better served by existing solutions. But this is mostly because we're still very early in a slow-burning hype-cycle. There are some fundamentally unique services supplied by (some) currencies, like Ethereum smart contracts (e.g. de-centralized escrow), that enable fundamentally new and useful interactions. It is precisely these features which give (some) currencies innate value beyond speculation. I personally plan on waiting for the hype cycle to shake out a bit longer before I get too involved.
  - mrbombastic 4y ago
    It has been 14 years since the bitcoin white paper, how long will we be in the early stages of crypto? On unique use cases, maybe but I am convinced the vast majority of crypto usage today falls in 2 camps 1) those speculating to make a quick buck 2) believers who want crypto to work Both of these camps are working against mass adoption. 1) because for a speculative investment to be successful it must go up, and who wants to spend a currency they think will go up? Remember that guy who bought pizza with his bitcoin? What an idiot right, he traded currency for food?!? 2) the believers hold decentralization as above all else and see crypto as much a political tool as a product, they will sacrifice efficiency and convenience for this, the majority of people in the world won’t.
    - TakeBlaster16 4y ago
      I said the same thing in 1983: it's been 14 years since ARPANET, how long will we be in the early stages of the internet? It took 50 years of hard work before the day came when you could order a burrito from your couch. Sometimes change takes a generation or two. Be patient.
      - 4y ago

someguydave 4y ago

No. Someone holding bitcoin is not the same as someone convincing others to invest in a wholly controlled fund in which you pay for withdrawals with new investment money.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
klyrs 4y ago
Of course not; the person holding the coin is a mark.
- someguydave 4y ago
  Can you explain in this thought-framework which asset markets are not ponzis?