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Almost all software is broken, in fact. A real field of engineering would prohibit most of the stupid shit idiots claiming to be programmers do before even rea

Almost all software is broken, in fact. A real field of engineering would prohibit most of the stupid shit idiots claiming to be programmers do before even reaching for the other issues.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
Notably, the ACM has been compiling a list of hundreds of instances of failures in software that have negatively impacted the public.
cuteboy19 4y ago
In most engineering disciplines, some degree of fault is permissible and is accounted for
- 9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
  That is my understanding as well, but some degree of fault is also impermissible and people must be held to account for those kinds of fault.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    You can't punish people into being better programmers. Things don't work that way. I know that it's popular to believe that companies improve productivity by beating their employees, but that doesn't work in practice.
    - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
      As a thought exercise, replace “programmers/employees/companies” with “criminals/inmates/prisons” in your argument and you will see parallels with modern law enforcement. Law enforcement embraces rehabilitation, prevention, and other mechanisms as well as simple punishment. Seems rather disingenuous to make a claim that negative reinforcement doesn’t work, vis-a-vis not having to be in jail.
      - verisimilitudes 4y ago
        His self-interest makes his position understandable. Why, programming is just as real as other engineering, except for those nasty consequences for gross negligence, such as using the C/C++ languages or garbage similar to them.
      - WalterBright 4y ago
        Jails shouldn't be for punishment. They should be for protecting society from people who can't live by the rules. Punitive prison sentences are uncivilized. Besides, pickpockets used to be hanged. Didn't stop them.
        verisimilitudes 4y ago
        dang 4y ago
        Would you please stop posting unsubstantive and flamewar comments? You've been doing an absolute ton of this and it's super not ok. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. We have to ban accounts that break HN's rules like that. I don't want to ban you, because you've also posted good things like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33145319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33145319 recently. Ok, you've posted one good thing (that one) recently. Still, it was pretty good and I'd rather persuade you to use the site as intended, if that's remotely possible, than to ban you. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, I'd personally appreciate it.
        verisimilitudes 4y ago
        I'm tired, dang. I wanted to delete this account, but I'm not allowed to do so. I didn't use it for years until I tried to contact someone here. Now, when I even try to submit something here into which I've poured effort, it doesn't appear in the new section until after it can no longer qualify for the front page, as an underhanded method of trying to make me believe no one cares about it. Why is Hacker News filled with political nonsense that gets hundreds of comments, while the programming topics get few or go ignored? It is so frustrating to try to have a conversation here, where people rather downvote and flag than write rebuttals. I tried to contribute to this forum, but my novel work goes ignored; my submission here with highest score merely hit hipster bingo. What am I supposed to do?

Almost all software is broken, in fact. A real field of engineering would prohibit most of the stupid shit idiots claiming to be programmers do before even reaching for the other issues.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago

Notably, the ACM has been compiling a list of hundreds of instances of failures in software that have negatively impacted the public.

cuteboy19 4y ago

In most engineering disciplines, some degree of fault is permissible and is accounted for

9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
That is my understanding as well, but some degree of fault is also impermissible and people must be held to account for those kinds of fault.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  You can't punish people into being better programmers. Things don't work that way. I know that it's popular to believe that companies improve productivity by beating their employees, but that doesn't work in practice.
  - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
    As a thought exercise, replace “programmers/employees/companies” with “criminals/inmates/prisons” in your argument and you will see parallels with modern law enforcement. Law enforcement embraces rehabilitation, prevention, and other mechanisms as well as simple punishment. Seems rather disingenuous to make a claim that negative reinforcement doesn’t work, vis-a-vis not having to be in jail.
    - verisimilitudes 4y ago
      His self-interest makes his position understandable. Why, programming is just as real as other engineering, except for those nasty consequences for gross negligence, such as using the C/C++ languages or garbage similar to them.
    - WalterBright 4y ago
      Jails shouldn't be for punishment. They should be for protecting society from people who can't live by the rules. Punitive prison sentences are uncivilized. Besides, pickpockets used to be hanged. Didn't stop them.
      - verisimilitudes 4y ago
        dang 4y ago
        Would you please stop posting unsubstantive and flamewar comments? You've been doing an absolute ton of this and it's super not ok. See https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. We have to ban accounts that break HN's rules like that. I don't want to ban you, because you've also posted good things like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33145319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33145319 recently. Ok, you've posted one good thing (that one) recently. Still, it was pretty good and I'd rather persuade you to use the site as intended, if that's remotely possible, than to ban you. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, I'd personally appreciate it.
        verisimilitudes 4y ago
        I'm tired, dang. I wanted to delete this account, but I'm not allowed to do so. I didn't use it for years until I tried to contact someone here. Now, when I even try to submit something here into which I've poured effort, it doesn't appear in the new section until after it can no longer qualify for the front page, as an underhanded method of trying to make me believe no one cares about it. Why is Hacker News filled with political nonsense that gets hundreds of comments, while the programming topics get few or go ignored? It is so frustrating to try to have a conversation here, where people rather downvote and flag than write rebuttals. I tried to contribute to this forum, but my novel work goes ignored; my submission here with highest score merely hit hipster bingo. What am I supposed to do?