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I think there is more behind SerenityOS that elevates it above being just another OS project. They've attracted hundreds of contributors and have instilled a un

I think there is more behind SerenityOS that elevates it above being just another OS project. They've attracted hundreds of contributors and have instilled a unique sense of culture within their community (as an example, going as far to devote an entire GitHub repository to documenting a list of "yak-shaving" yak emojis[1]). I think that kind of social endeavor isn't something a lot of maintainers can accomplish, not even those with the skills to work on such a project all by themselves. [1] https://github.com/SerenityOS/yaksplained https://github.com/SerenityOS/yaksplained

edgyquant 4y ago
I think it’s that most people are doomers and/or are defeated by doomerism. Most people think it’s impossible to build an OS or a web browser (and are told this when they ask for help building one.) In reality engineering is straightforward, you just need someone to show you how to properly write data structures and algorithms and to break problems down. Andreas showed these kids this, reinvigorating the web based hacker culture I grew up in. Anything is possible and even if a problem ends up being more than you can handle at least you learned a ton along the way. Now days searching for how to code leads you to a ton of tutorials about gluing modules together. I feel sorry for young people with that thirst who won’t be satisfied thanks to the commoditization of learning to code.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  One of the comments on Kling’s YT stream read: “Wish we could go back to 2004. Modern web has become toxic af” which embodies the spirit of this community pretty well I think. Andreas Kling is the messiah that is leading a group of people that are fed up with modernity.
  - phist_mcgee 4y ago
    Ironically, by using modern tools.
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      I think revisiting vintage technologies with better modern tools = Win. It takes advantage of sharp hindsight and correct what was bad, and more importantly keep what worked.
    - jbirer 4y ago
      Modern tools are good, but the culture around it is pretty toxic, and in my own opinion, cringy. 10 years ago you would get booed for saying things like "Unused RAM is wasted ram, so let's build this in Electron". I am happy to see a pushback.
      - saagarjha 4y ago
        “Unused RAM is wasted RAM” is only relevant if you’re writing an OS.
        int_19h 4y ago
        It's also relevant if you're writing software that's intended to be run side by side with other software.
        saagarjha 4y ago
        It's relevant in the sense that you should not be using that as your guiding principle, yes.
        account42 4y ago
        Do any operating systems have an API for cache-only memory that the OS is free to discard at will? Maybe there should be because the other end of the spectrum is unneccessarily loading the same things over and over again even though there is lots of excess memory available. Many games are guilty of this, not really taking advantage of overspecced systems.
        saagarjha 4y ago
chillfox 4y ago
Super welcoming community + a clear and strong vision to guide the project. Other OS projects I have seen either lack vision (same as x, but written in y), or they are just for the personal learning of the developer who started it.
- ghostly_s 4y ago
  Is that vision written down somewhere? Surely there is something more than "Unix-like core with the look&feel of 1990s productivity software" keeping people engaged with this project?
  - chillfox 4y ago
    That is pretty much it, + everything in one repo so that you can fix bugs anywhere in the stack when encountering them. While "Unix-like core with the look&feel of 1990s productivity software" sounds simple, it's more than what most new OS projects I have seen provide and it very clearly signals who it's for. The "look&feel of 1990s productivity software", communicates that the UI will use consistent elements across applications, which is something you only find in Mac OSX these days. The Super welcoming community is the other half keeping people engaged that you are looking for.
  - LeFantome 4y ago
    If you ask me: - write the whole stack yourself so you can fix any problem or make any improvement without external dependencies or coordination - the implementation is never written in stone and it is always possible to move to something better ( which is why you need to control the whole stack ) - no problem is too big to start solving - implement something basic that works and then improve it ( see all of the above ) - evolve everything in the open

edgyquant 4y ago

I think it’s that most people are doomers and/or are defeated by doomerism. Most people think it’s impossible to build an OS or a web browser (and are told this when they ask for help building one.) In reality engineering is straightforward, you just need someone to show you how to properly write data structures and algorithms and to break problems down. Andreas showed these kids this, reinvigorating the web based hacker culture I grew up in. Anything is possible and even if a problem ends up being more than you can handle at least you learned a ton along the way. Now days searching for how to code leads you to a ton of tutorials about gluing modules together. I feel sorry for young people with that thirst who won’t be satisfied thanks to the commoditization of learning to code.

systemvoltage 4y ago
One of the comments on Kling’s YT stream read: “Wish we could go back to 2004. Modern web has become toxic af” which embodies the spirit of this community pretty well I think. Andreas Kling is the messiah that is leading a group of people that are fed up with modernity.
- phist_mcgee 4y ago
  Ironically, by using modern tools.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    I think revisiting vintage technologies with better modern tools = Win. It takes advantage of sharp hindsight and correct what was bad, and more importantly keep what worked.
  - jbirer 4y ago
    Modern tools are good, but the culture around it is pretty toxic, and in my own opinion, cringy. 10 years ago you would get booed for saying things like "Unused RAM is wasted ram, so let's build this in Electron". I am happy to see a pushback.
    - saagarjha 4y ago
      “Unused RAM is wasted RAM” is only relevant if you’re writing an OS.
      - int_19h 4y ago
        It's also relevant if you're writing software that's intended to be run side by side with other software.
        saagarjha 4y ago
        It's relevant in the sense that you should not be using that as your guiding principle, yes.
      - account42 4y ago
        Do any operating systems have an API for cache-only memory that the OS is free to discard at will? Maybe there should be because the other end of the spectrum is unneccessarily loading the same things over and over again even though there is lots of excess memory available. Many games are guilty of this, not really taking advantage of overspecced systems.
        saagarjha 4y ago

chillfox 4y ago

Super welcoming community + a clear and strong vision to guide the project. Other OS projects I have seen either lack vision (same as x, but written in y), or they are just for the personal learning of the developer who started it.

ghostly_s 4y ago
Is that vision written down somewhere? Surely there is something more than "Unix-like core with the look&feel of 1990s productivity software" keeping people engaged with this project?
- chillfox 4y ago
  That is pretty much it, + everything in one repo so that you can fix bugs anywhere in the stack when encountering them. While "Unix-like core with the look&feel of 1990s productivity software" sounds simple, it's more than what most new OS projects I have seen provide and it very clearly signals who it's for. The "look&feel of 1990s productivity software", communicates that the UI will use consistent elements across applications, which is something you only find in Mac OSX these days. The Super welcoming community is the other half keeping people engaged that you are looking for.
- LeFantome 4y ago
  If you ask me: - write the whole stack yourself so you can fix any problem or make any improvement without external dependencies or coordination - the implementation is never written in stone and it is always possible to move to something better ( which is why you need to control the whole stack ) - no problem is too big to start solving - implement something basic that works and then improve it ( see all of the above ) - evolve everything in the open