4 ms·

You mean they are “inescapable” because people used their own free will to choose them? - Computers - you admitted that you could use Linux. But Apple and Micr

You mean they are “inescapable” because people used their own free will to choose them? - Computers - you admitted that you could use Linux. But Apple and Microsoft provide a better experience for you - phones - you could use a PinePhone. But you choose to use an Android or iPhone because it is a better experience - your family chose to use Facebook products even though there are plenty of other messaging apps and methods to share pictures. Facebook gave them a better experience. - I can’t think of a single product that you can get from Amazon that you couldn’t get from somewhere else. You choose to use Amazon for the convenience

IntelMiner 4y ago
So what you're saying is, these are non-issues as long as I'm still able to go completely out of my own way to exercise as strained a free choice as possible?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- scarface74 4y ago
  Yes, just like I have a freedom of choice to sit down on my couch everyday to eat pizza, nachos and drink Coke or take the much harder route of walking over to ny home gym after work and run on my treadmill, climb my elliptical and lift weights. There are plenty of people who use Linux as a daily driver, don’t use Facebook Messenger, and order from other places besides Amazon
  - IntelMiner 4y ago
    So, for the sake of taking your...argument to its logical conclusion Amazon sells an item I'm after A physical store in a remote town in the African desert also sells it. But not online Obviously it is my fault for not exercising my still existant, but "inconvenient" choice to not purchase the item from Amazon. Or simply book a flight across the atlantic, various other methods of transit to make the trip to the village and then return home the same way
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Name an item that you can only order online from Amazon?
autoexec 4y ago
> You mean they are “inescapable” because people used their own free will to choose them? I didn't authorize facebook to create an account for me, but they made one for me in secret anyway and they buy data from data brokers to fill my dossier with details of my life. Facebook isn't giving me a better experience when they track my internet browsing and app usage. I don't "choose by my own free will" to make government websites send my data to Google by including trackers in their pages, but I still have to use those sites to get the data they provide and the services they offer. Lots of people could use a Pine phone, but cannot afford one and the last time I checked into pine phones the "better experience" in that case would have meant "Can actually be used to place a phone call". What kind of alternative is a phone that couldn't place calls? They've likely fixed that issue by now, but let's not pretend that all choices are remotely equivalent or accessible. If there's no comparable alternative to something it's extremely disingenuous to suggest that people must love it, or that they are making a deliberate choice to use it. Often there is no choice that doesn't involve upending your entire life or cutting yourself off from society. For example, I could quit my job, leave my entire career behind, and endanger the health and safety of my family to try to find some entry level job in another industry that wouldn't make me use a Microsoft product, but if I'm not willing to do that does that mean I choose to use Windows of my own free will? At what point does "give up everything and endanger the people you love or else keep using Windows" start feeling less like a choice freely made and a lot more like someone putting a gun to your head? Sometimes a "choice" isn't much of a choice at all, and in the case of using Google or Facebook you have no choice since they are impossible to avoid in today's society.
- scarface74 4y ago
  You can block Google analytics and the fact that your family chose Facebook doesn’t mean you have to anymore than I have to go to a family reunion when the rest of my family chose to go there. Facebook didn’t force your family to use it anymore than they forced them to go to a city you didn’t want to go to for the reunion. > For example, I could quit my job, leave my entire career behind, and endanger the health and safety of my family to try to find some entry level job in another industry that wouldn't make me use a Microsoft product, but if I'm not willing to do that does that mean I choose to use Windows of my own free will? There are millions of other people who chose a different career path. There are also developers who never have to use an MS product. I’m sorry you were forced to choose a career where you get to sit in front of a computer everyday probably making a lot more than people in a factory.

IntelMiner 4y ago

So what you're saying is, these are non-issues as long as I'm still able to go completely out of my own way to exercise as strained a free choice as possible?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
scarface74 4y ago
Yes, just like I have a freedom of choice to sit down on my couch everyday to eat pizza, nachos and drink Coke or take the much harder route of walking over to ny home gym after work and run on my treadmill, climb my elliptical and lift weights. There are plenty of people who use Linux as a daily driver, don’t use Facebook Messenger, and order from other places besides Amazon
- IntelMiner 4y ago
  So, for the sake of taking your...argument to its logical conclusion Amazon sells an item I'm after A physical store in a remote town in the African desert also sells it. But not online Obviously it is my fault for not exercising my still existant, but "inconvenient" choice to not purchase the item from Amazon. Or simply book a flight across the atlantic, various other methods of transit to make the trip to the village and then return home the same way
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Name an item that you can only order online from Amazon?

autoexec 4y ago

> You mean they are “inescapable” because people used their own free will to choose them? I didn't authorize facebook to create an account for me, but they made one for me in secret anyway and they buy data from data brokers to fill my dossier with details of my life. Facebook isn't giving me a better experience when they track my internet browsing and app usage. I don't "choose by my own free will" to make government websites send my data to Google by including trackers in their pages, but I still have to use those sites to get the data they provide and the services they offer. Lots of people could use a Pine phone, but cannot afford one and the last time I checked into pine phones the "better experience" in that case would have meant "Can actually be used to place a phone call". What kind of alternative is a phone that couldn't place calls? They've likely fixed that issue by now, but let's not pretend that all choices are remotely equivalent or accessible. If there's no comparable alternative to something it's extremely disingenuous to suggest that people must love it, or that they are making a deliberate choice to use it. Often there is no choice that doesn't involve upending your entire life or cutting yourself off from society. For example, I could quit my job, leave my entire career behind, and endanger the health and safety of my family to try to find some entry level job in another industry that wouldn't make me use a Microsoft product, but if I'm not willing to do that does that mean I choose to use Windows of my own free will? At what point does "give up everything and endanger the people you love or else keep using Windows" start feeling less like a choice freely made and a lot more like someone putting a gun to your head? Sometimes a "choice" isn't much of a choice at all, and in the case of using Google or Facebook you have no choice since they are impossible to avoid in today's society.

scarface74 4y ago
You can block Google analytics and the fact that your family chose Facebook doesn’t mean you have to anymore than I have to go to a family reunion when the rest of my family chose to go there. Facebook didn’t force your family to use it anymore than they forced them to go to a city you didn’t want to go to for the reunion. > For example, I could quit my job, leave my entire career behind, and endanger the health and safety of my family to try to find some entry level job in another industry that wouldn't make me use a Microsoft product, but if I'm not willing to do that does that mean I choose to use Windows of my own free will? There are millions of other people who chose a different career path. There are also developers who never have to use an MS product. I’m sorry you were forced to choose a career where you get to sit in front of a computer everyday probably making a lot more than people in a factory.