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> The crypto mantra "not your keys, not your coins" rings true. Which just highlights why "crypto" is largely useless. The vast majority of people are incapabl

> The crypto mantra "not your keys, not your coins" rings true. Which just highlights why "crypto" is largely useless. The vast majority of people are incapable of operating sufficiently secure infrastructure. And even for people who can, it doesn't offer any meaningful advantages that would justify the enormous effort required. > Privacy should be a basic and legally protected feature of blockchains. This is impossible when you are using blockchains, because all data is, by design, public, and there is no way of preventing anyone from data mining it.

saurik 4y ago
You should read up on Zcash, because it seems like you have a very limited understanding of what is actually possible with this kind of technology :(. Hell: TornadoCash--which is based on similar mechanisms--apparently worked so well, despite being fully decentralized software running on an existing blockchain (Ethereum), that it is now sanctioned (which is honestly a bit strange as it isn't even a group of people: it is software) by the legacy system that refuses to allow people to have financial privacy (which is a travesty) :(. Also, as much as I despise MobileCoin for various reasons (and thereby haven't used either it or Signal), as far as I understand, not only do you "own your keys", but the UI is almost as easy to use as Apple Cash (or whatever the name is for the specific payment feature Apple provides where you have an account filled with money that you can send to people using iMessage).
lawn 4y ago
Impossible? No it's not. Monero does it and to an extent shielded transactions in zcash too.
liber8 4y ago
>>it doesn't offer any meaningful advantages that would justify the enormous effort required<< I'm blown away by the complete disregard most of this community has for crypto. Yes, it is currently full of scams and charlatans. But you honestly believe there are no meaningful advantages to decentralized currency? Is anti-censorship not an advantage? I'm not a huge fan of the government's ability to seize assets without any due process (See, e.g. Canada https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385), which corporations are starting to get interested in (see, e.g. Paypal https://fortune.com/2022/10/10/paypal-users-fine-misinformation-aup-error-confusion/ https://fortune.com/2022/10/10/paypal-users-fine-misinformat...). Bitcoin and other coins go a long way to solving these issues. How about effectively free, instant transfers at any time of day or night? Traditionally if I wanted to wire money oversees, it's a full-day affair. I can transfer any amount of crypto I want in seconds to minutes, for far less than a wire fee. How about the ability to instantly settle debts and contracts? This was literally impossible just a few years ago. I know it's easy to shit on crypto (and there are many legitimate reasons for doing so), but you guys need to dream bigger.
zeroclip 4y ago
The vast majority of Aave users still have their funds, compared to Celsius users. The effort required to hold keys is not really that significant. Privacy in blockchains is certainly possible. Tornado cash, Monero, zcash, Aztec.

saurik 4y ago

You should read up on Zcash, because it seems like you have a very limited understanding of what is actually possible with this kind of technology :(. Hell: TornadoCash--which is based on similar mechanisms--apparently worked so well, despite being fully decentralized software running on an existing blockchain (Ethereum), that it is now sanctioned (which is honestly a bit strange as it isn't even a group of people: it is software) by the legacy system that refuses to allow people to have financial privacy (which is a travesty) :(. Also, as much as I despise MobileCoin for various reasons (and thereby haven't used either it or Signal), as far as I understand, not only do you "own your keys", but the UI is almost as easy to use as Apple Cash (or whatever the name is for the specific payment feature Apple provides where you have an account filled with money that you can send to people using iMessage).

lawn 4y ago

Impossible? No it's not. Monero does it and to an extent shielded transactions in zcash too.

liber8 4y ago

>>it doesn't offer any meaningful advantages that would justify the enormous effort required<< I'm blown away by the complete disregard most of this community has for crypto. Yes, it is currently full of scams and charlatans. But you honestly believe there are no meaningful advantages to decentralized currency? Is anti-censorship not an advantage? I'm not a huge fan of the government's ability to seize assets without any due process (See, e.g. Canada https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60383385), which corporations are starting to get interested in (see, e.g. Paypal https://fortune.com/2022/10/10/paypal-users-fine-misinformation-aup-error-confusion/ https://fortune.com/2022/10/10/paypal-users-fine-misinformat...). Bitcoin and other coins go a long way to solving these issues. How about effectively free, instant transfers at any time of day or night? Traditionally if I wanted to wire money oversees, it's a full-day affair. I can transfer any amount of crypto I want in seconds to minutes, for far less than a wire fee. How about the ability to instantly settle debts and contracts? This was literally impossible just a few years ago. I know it's easy to shit on crypto (and there are many legitimate reasons for doing so), but you guys need to dream bigger.

zeroclip 4y ago

The vast majority of Aave users still have their funds, compared to Celsius users. The effort required to hold keys is not really that significant. Privacy in blockchains is certainly possible. Tornado cash, Monero, zcash, Aztec.