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Except part of the problem with these tech giants is they're truly inescapable I don't "like" Windows but I'm using it right now to type this comment because m

Except part of the problem with these tech giants is they're truly inescapable I don't "like" Windows but I'm using it right now to type this comment because my option is the other FAANG, Apple. Or specifically going out of my way to use Linux. (This extends also to cell phones with the effective Google/Apple duopoly) I don't "like" Facebook but it's the only way I can keep in contact with my family across the planet, because they're technologically illiterate and only understand Facebook Messenger I don't "like" Amazon but they've sucked most of the oxygen out of online retail

scarface74 4y ago
You mean they are “inescapable” because people used their own free will to choose them? - Computers - you admitted that you could use Linux. But Apple and Microsoft provide a better experience for you - phones - you could use a PinePhone. But you choose to use an Android or iPhone because it is a better experience - your family chose to use Facebook products even though there are plenty of other messaging apps and methods to share pictures. Facebook gave them a better experience. - I can’t think of a single product that you can get from Amazon that you couldn’t get from somewhere else. You choose to use Amazon for the convenience
- IntelMiner 4y ago
  So what you're saying is, these are non-issues as long as I'm still able to go completely out of my own way to exercise as strained a free choice as possible?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Yes, just like I have a freedom of choice to sit down on my couch everyday to eat pizza, nachos and drink Coke or take the much harder route of walking over to ny home gym after work and run on my treadmill, climb my elliptical and lift weights. There are plenty of people who use Linux as a daily driver, don’t use Facebook Messenger, and order from other places besides Amazon
    - IntelMiner 4y ago
      So, for the sake of taking your...argument to its logical conclusion Amazon sells an item I'm after A physical store in a remote town in the African desert also sells it. But not online Obviously it is my fault for not exercising my still existant, but "inconvenient" choice to not purchase the item from Amazon. Or simply book a flight across the atlantic, various other methods of transit to make the trip to the village and then return home the same way
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Name an item that you can only order online from Amazon?
- autoexec 4y ago
  > You mean they are “inescapable” because people used their own free will to choose them? I didn't authorize facebook to create an account for me, but they made one for me in secret anyway and they buy data from data brokers to fill my dossier with details of my life. Facebook isn't giving me a better experience when they track my internet browsing and app usage. I don't "choose by my own free will" to make government websites send my data to Google by including trackers in their pages, but I still have to use those sites to get the data they provide and the services they offer. Lots of people could use a Pine phone, but cannot afford one and the last time I checked into pine phones the "better experience" in that case would have meant "Can actually be used to place a phone call". What kind of alternative is a phone that couldn't place calls? They've likely fixed that issue by now, but let's not pretend that all choices are remotely equivalent or accessible. If there's no comparable alternative to something it's extremely disingenuous to suggest that people must love it, or that they are making a deliberate choice to use it. Often there is no choice that doesn't involve upending your entire life or cutting yourself off from society. For example, I could quit my job, leave my entire career behind, and endanger the health and safety of my family to try to find some entry level job in another industry that wouldn't make me use a Microsoft product, but if I'm not willing to do that does that mean I choose to use Windows of my own free will? At what point does "give up everything and endanger the people you love or else keep using Windows" start feeling less like a choice freely made and a lot more like someone putting a gun to your head? Sometimes a "choice" isn't much of a choice at all, and in the case of using Google or Facebook you have no choice since they are impossible to avoid in today's society.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    You can block Google analytics and the fact that your family chose Facebook doesn’t mean you have to anymore than I have to go to a family reunion when the rest of my family chose to go there. Facebook didn’t force your family to use it anymore than they forced them to go to a city you didn’t want to go to for the reunion. > For example, I could quit my job, leave my entire career behind, and endanger the health and safety of my family to try to find some entry level job in another industry that wouldn't make me use a Microsoft product, but if I'm not willing to do that does that mean I choose to use Windows of my own free will? There are millions of other people who chose a different career path. There are also developers who never have to use an MS product. I’m sorry you were forced to choose a career where you get to sit in front of a computer everyday probably making a lot more than people in a factory.
nequo 4y ago
I use Linux, don't use Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, and try my best to avoid ordering from Amazon. You don't need to go out of your way to use Linux. It is really not that bad. Ubuntu Mate is a usable desktop and there are others, too, like Linux Mint, etc. It doesn't artificially deprecate your hardware like new Windows releases do. And everything that you install through the package manager is kept up-to-date by it for security fixes, including your browser, mail client, word processor, text editors, Python packages, and so on, without you having to seek out updates manually.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Let’s not pretend that Microsoft has an unreasonable deprecation strategy. I have a laptop from 2008 [1] that’s running a fully supported Windows 10. After Apple abandoned my old Core Duo 2.66Mhz Mac Mini that was introduced in 2006, I put Windows 7 on it. Windows 7 got its last security update in January 2020 [2]. Yes my old 14 year old Mac Mini is still running. My mom just stopped using it right before Covid as a secondary computer for kids she was tutoring to use Chrome. [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Dell-Latitude-E6500-Notebook.11958.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Dell-Latitude-E6500-Not... [2] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/end-of-support https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/end-of-support
  - nequo 4y ago
    I am glad that it is working out for you. Not having security updates since January 2020 is a problem though. From what you're saying, it seems that you could upgrade to Windows 10 but then you're forced to stay on an old version of the OS whose EOL is approaching. This generally doesn't happen with Linux, and this is not the only benefit that Linux has.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      I’m saying that the old Mac Mini that Apple discontinued support for in 2009 - Microsoft kept “supporting” until 2020. That’s 14 years of life for a computer with 1.5GB RAM, a 60GB spinning hard drive, USB 2, 802.11G. The only saving grace was that it also had Gigabit Ethernet. My mom kept it because it was useful. But you can buy a $200 Dell (https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/inspiron-15-3000-laptop/spd/inspiron-15-3510-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/inspiron-15-300...) that would serve the same purpose - a computer to run Chrome - that would run rings around a 16 year old computer. At some point it just becomes nerd pride to keep using. She does have other computers that she uses that are newer. But once it was EOL, she never used it. Personally, I wouldn’t even think about getting any x86 laptop in 2022. Using an Intel laptop with its horrible battery life, heat and fan noise compared to an ARM Mac is like using a flip phone after the iPhone came out

scarface74 4y ago

You mean they are “inescapable” because people used their own free will to choose them? - Computers - you admitted that you could use Linux. But Apple and Microsoft provide a better experience for you - phones - you could use a PinePhone. But you choose to use an Android or iPhone because it is a better experience - your family chose to use Facebook products even though there are plenty of other messaging apps and methods to share pictures. Facebook gave them a better experience. - I can’t think of a single product that you can get from Amazon that you couldn’t get from somewhere else. You choose to use Amazon for the convenience

IntelMiner 4y ago
So what you're saying is, these are non-issues as long as I'm still able to go completely out of my own way to exercise as strained a free choice as possible?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- scarface74 4y ago
  Yes, just like I have a freedom of choice to sit down on my couch everyday to eat pizza, nachos and drink Coke or take the much harder route of walking over to ny home gym after work and run on my treadmill, climb my elliptical and lift weights. There are plenty of people who use Linux as a daily driver, don’t use Facebook Messenger, and order from other places besides Amazon
  - IntelMiner 4y ago
    So, for the sake of taking your...argument to its logical conclusion Amazon sells an item I'm after A physical store in a remote town in the African desert also sells it. But not online Obviously it is my fault for not exercising my still existant, but "inconvenient" choice to not purchase the item from Amazon. Or simply book a flight across the atlantic, various other methods of transit to make the trip to the village and then return home the same way
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Name an item that you can only order online from Amazon?
autoexec 4y ago
> You mean they are “inescapable” because people used their own free will to choose them? I didn't authorize facebook to create an account for me, but they made one for me in secret anyway and they buy data from data brokers to fill my dossier with details of my life. Facebook isn't giving me a better experience when they track my internet browsing and app usage. I don't "choose by my own free will" to make government websites send my data to Google by including trackers in their pages, but I still have to use those sites to get the data they provide and the services they offer. Lots of people could use a Pine phone, but cannot afford one and the last time I checked into pine phones the "better experience" in that case would have meant "Can actually be used to place a phone call". What kind of alternative is a phone that couldn't place calls? They've likely fixed that issue by now, but let's not pretend that all choices are remotely equivalent or accessible. If there's no comparable alternative to something it's extremely disingenuous to suggest that people must love it, or that they are making a deliberate choice to use it. Often there is no choice that doesn't involve upending your entire life or cutting yourself off from society. For example, I could quit my job, leave my entire career behind, and endanger the health and safety of my family to try to find some entry level job in another industry that wouldn't make me use a Microsoft product, but if I'm not willing to do that does that mean I choose to use Windows of my own free will? At what point does "give up everything and endanger the people you love or else keep using Windows" start feeling less like a choice freely made and a lot more like someone putting a gun to your head? Sometimes a "choice" isn't much of a choice at all, and in the case of using Google or Facebook you have no choice since they are impossible to avoid in today's society.
- scarface74 4y ago
  You can block Google analytics and the fact that your family chose Facebook doesn’t mean you have to anymore than I have to go to a family reunion when the rest of my family chose to go there. Facebook didn’t force your family to use it anymore than they forced them to go to a city you didn’t want to go to for the reunion. > For example, I could quit my job, leave my entire career behind, and endanger the health and safety of my family to try to find some entry level job in another industry that wouldn't make me use a Microsoft product, but if I'm not willing to do that does that mean I choose to use Windows of my own free will? There are millions of other people who chose a different career path. There are also developers who never have to use an MS product. I’m sorry you were forced to choose a career where you get to sit in front of a computer everyday probably making a lot more than people in a factory.

nequo 4y ago

I use Linux, don't use Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, and try my best to avoid ordering from Amazon. You don't need to go out of your way to use Linux. It is really not that bad. Ubuntu Mate is a usable desktop and there are others, too, like Linux Mint, etc. It doesn't artificially deprecate your hardware like new Windows releases do. And everything that you install through the package manager is kept up-to-date by it for security fixes, including your browser, mail client, word processor, text editors, Python packages, and so on, without you having to seek out updates manually.

scarface74 4y ago
Let’s not pretend that Microsoft has an unreasonable deprecation strategy. I have a laptop from 2008 [1] that’s running a fully supported Windows 10. After Apple abandoned my old Core Duo 2.66Mhz Mac Mini that was introduced in 2006, I put Windows 7 on it. Windows 7 got its last security update in January 2020 [2]. Yes my old 14 year old Mac Mini is still running. My mom just stopped using it right before Covid as a secondary computer for kids she was tutoring to use Chrome. [1] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Dell-Latitude-E6500-Notebook.11958.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Dell-Latitude-E6500-Not... [2] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/end-of-support https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/end-of-support
- nequo 4y ago
  I am glad that it is working out for you. Not having security updates since January 2020 is a problem though. From what you're saying, it seems that you could upgrade to Windows 10 but then you're forced to stay on an old version of the OS whose EOL is approaching. This generally doesn't happen with Linux, and this is not the only benefit that Linux has.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    I’m saying that the old Mac Mini that Apple discontinued support for in 2009 - Microsoft kept “supporting” until 2020. That’s 14 years of life for a computer with 1.5GB RAM, a 60GB spinning hard drive, USB 2, 802.11G. The only saving grace was that it also had Gigabit Ethernet. My mom kept it because it was useful. But you can buy a $200 Dell (https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/inspiron-15-3000-laptop/spd/inspiron-15-3510-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/inspiron-15-300...) that would serve the same purpose - a computer to run Chrome - that would run rings around a 16 year old computer. At some point it just becomes nerd pride to keep using. She does have other computers that she uses that are newer. But once it was EOL, she never used it. Personally, I wouldn’t even think about getting any x86 laptop in 2022. Using an Intel laptop with its horrible battery life, heat and fan noise compared to an ARM Mac is like using a flip phone after the iPhone came out