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If they truly do a cyber attack on infrastructure like they’ve been doing to Ukraine it will end in war. There’s a reason they are only attacking the wait time

by wil421 4y ago

If they truly do a cyber attack on infrastructure like they’ve been doing to Ukraine it will end in war. There’s a reason they are only attacking the wait time pages and not airport operations. Read the book This Is How They Tell Me the World Ends: The Cyberweapons Arms Race by Nicole Perlroth. It has a chapter that shows a lot of what has been going on in Ukraine. One quote that stuck with me was a Ukrainian saying you guys (US/West) are next, they are practicing on us.

ericmay 4y ago
> One quote that stuck with me was a Ukrainian saying you guys (US/West) are next, they are practicing on us. Don't forget this goes bi-directional. We (the West) aren't idle recipients of what others do to our countries without response and even preventive measures. Granted the main danger is that we basically have a lot more to lose than our self-proclaimed adversaries but that doesn't mean we are helpless.
- wil421 4y ago
  It’s much more one sided than bidirectional if you look outside of government employee/military hackers. Russia and China allow their citizens to scam and hack the US with almost impunity. If you or I started scamming Russians or defacing websites we would be going to prison. They pretty much allow and even encourage these types of activity.
ramesh31 4y ago
> If they truly do a cyber attack on infrastructure like they’ve been doing to Ukraine it will end in war. This has been the conventional wisdom, yes. Just like the conventional wisdom before February was that full scale land warfare between modern industrialized european nations was a thing of the past. What we’ve seen over the last year invalidates all of that. If they could paralyze Ukraine with a cyberattack, they would have by now. That bodes pretty poorly for their ability to meaningfully impact the US.
- wil421 4y ago
  The book covers how they have been trying to harden Ukraine infra since 2014, if anything they are likely ahead of the US in hardening stuff.
- csydas 4y ago
  I'm not trying to prop up the Russian military here, but I feel that your statement of "if they could have they would have" doesn't follow to logical conclusions. Keep in mind, the common attribution of the supply chain attacks across a number of vendors was Russian actors. Also keep in mind that large scale attacks have typically started with thoroughly unconvincing "Hey Bob check this out" emails with a malicious excel doc. The point here isn't to say that the Russian government has mastermind hackers, but instead to understand that an actual and effectual attack doesn't need elite skills, just a few gullible people and known exploits on unpatched servers. I find it far more likely that any world government has the traditional hacks playbook and still get over .500 in most environments they attack without a single novel zero-day. The attack described in the article is to antagonize, no doubt, but I wouldn't be very fast to describe the abilities of someone based on how they troll people. This is not the same as an assertion of "they are the best hackers", it's more I just don't think this is representative of the actual capability of any state actor, the Russian military included.
lugu 4y ago
They most certainly have thrown to Ukraine all they could do and it hasn't ended anything. It seems we have overestimating what Russia is capable of (like we did for their conventional forces).

by wil421 4y ago

ericmay 4y ago

> One quote that stuck with me was a Ukrainian saying you guys (US/West) are next, they are practicing on us. Don't forget this goes bi-directional. We (the West) aren't idle recipients of what others do to our countries without response and even preventive measures. Granted the main danger is that we basically have a lot more to lose than our self-proclaimed adversaries but that doesn't mean we are helpless.

wil421 4y ago
It’s much more one sided than bidirectional if you look outside of government employee/military hackers. Russia and China allow their citizens to scam and hack the US with almost impunity. If you or I started scamming Russians or defacing websites we would be going to prison. They pretty much allow and even encourage these types of activity.

ramesh31 4y ago

> If they truly do a cyber attack on infrastructure like they’ve been doing to Ukraine it will end in war. This has been the conventional wisdom, yes. Just like the conventional wisdom before February was that full scale land warfare between modern industrialized european nations was a thing of the past. What we’ve seen over the last year invalidates all of that. If they could paralyze Ukraine with a cyberattack, they would have by now. That bodes pretty poorly for their ability to meaningfully impact the US.

wil421 4y ago
The book covers how they have been trying to harden Ukraine infra since 2014, if anything they are likely ahead of the US in hardening stuff.
csydas 4y ago
I'm not trying to prop up the Russian military here, but I feel that your statement of "if they could have they would have" doesn't follow to logical conclusions. Keep in mind, the common attribution of the supply chain attacks across a number of vendors was Russian actors. Also keep in mind that large scale attacks have typically started with thoroughly unconvincing "Hey Bob check this out" emails with a malicious excel doc. The point here isn't to say that the Russian government has mastermind hackers, but instead to understand that an actual and effectual attack doesn't need elite skills, just a few gullible people and known exploits on unpatched servers. I find it far more likely that any world government has the traditional hacks playbook and still get over .500 in most environments they attack without a single novel zero-day. The attack described in the article is to antagonize, no doubt, but I wouldn't be very fast to describe the abilities of someone based on how they troll people. This is not the same as an assertion of "they are the best hackers", it's more I just don't think this is representative of the actual capability of any state actor, the Russian military included.

lugu 4y ago

They most certainly have thrown to Ukraine all they could do and it hasn't ended anything. It seems we have overestimating what Russia is capable of (like we did for their conventional forces).