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The 4th Year of SerenityOS
- akling 4y agoHappy birthday, SerenityOS! :^)
- codetrotter 4y agoCongrats Andreas, on building such a cool project and community! SerenityOS is a wonderful project, and the world is better for it existing :) And also all of your wonderful videos that you’ve made about the development of the system over these years. That’s the most valuable part of it all for me.
- phendrenad2 4y agoIs this ever getting GPU acceleration?
- adamrt 4y agoThey don’t plan ahead for features typically. They add stuff when someone wants to do the work.
- cies 4y agoNot sure why downvoted... I searched Github for you and found this: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/Libraries/LibGL https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/tree/master/Userland/... See also LigGPU and LibSoftGPU in the same folder.
- cies 4y agoSee this also from the birthday announcement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yLESYN4_5w https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yLESYN4_5w
- asddubs 4y agojust to clarify potential misunderstandings: this is for opengl compatibility using CPU rendering. although obviously having this sort of thing will be useful for transitioning to gpu support independently of having drivers written
- jeroenhd 4y agoLibGPU seems to load the soft GPU, doesn't seem to do all that much. Which is perfectly understandable, GPUs are their own special part of operating system programming (messing with firmware, boot timings, etc.). If it'll ever get GPU support, I'd expect it to be based on QEMU/libvirt GPU acceleration rather than any direct hardware support. Unless someone knowledgeable and motivated enough has a crack at it and writes a driver forttheir GPU, of course That's an immense task, though, so I wouldn't expect it any time soon. Maybe an Intel engineer will get bored or something.
- bpye 4y agoI think all the BSDs got GPU acceleration by adding a compat layer around Linux's DRM subsystem. I'm sure someone could do that for SerenityOS if they were so motivated...
- asddubs 4y agomy personal guess is probably, although andreas always insists that there is no plan in response to these sort of questions, so don't expect official confirmation or a timeline
- gjsman-1000 4y agoFantastic progress. My only concern is looking at it... I can't help but worry slightly about feature creep. We went from an OS, to an OS + Web Browser, to an OS + Web Browser + Programming Language. Next year it might add an Office Suite at this rate. Edit: I don't mean this as a bad thing, just that it would be a shame to get so large that everything becomes half-baked and overwhelming to finish.
- trashburger 4y agoFeature creep kinda defines the project. It's not a bug, it's a feature. :^)
- russtrotter 4y agoAbsolutely agreed. I've watched lots of his long-form videos on all those topics and initially I was always scratching my head as to why he'd want to reinvent all these wheels from the molecules up, but as I watched more, I realized that he's a journey guy, not necessarily a destination guy. To his credit, he's attracted a similarly-minded following of contributors along the way.
- aliqot 4y agowhile endearing, it does endanger the trajectory of the main feature. 'how many paid FT devs are being added per feature' is what should be asked. People asking "Is it fun" are missing the point. Don't 'fun' yourself into a job under terms you didn't get to negotiate, state your requirements and adjust your work funnel accordingly. I've witnessed a lot of 'fun' projects manifest themselves into serious projects that fall apart because this forethought was neglected.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago> how many paid FT devs are being added per feature Well, considering this is a fun project being worked on by volunteers (some of whom are sponsored by the community), I'm going to go out on a limb and say the answer to this question will always be "zero".
- emptyparadise 4y agoI want to become powerful enough to contribute to SerenityOS.
- cies 4y agoShave a few Yaks :) No, kidding... But their Jakt[1] language will make it much easier to contribute than in arcane reality of C++. [1]: https://github.com/SerenityOS/jakt https://github.com/SerenityOS/jakt
- thom 4y agoThis will hopefully be true, but Serenity is nevertheless one of the most pleasant C++ codebases to read that you're ever likely to come across.
- boricj 4y agoJust do it. Seriously, you don't even have to know programming to contribute. Writing documentation, porting software, trying to boot on real hardware, trying out websites with the web browser, looking for bugs in the user interface... There's no such thing as a barrier to entry with SerenityOS as long as you're motivated to learn.
- chatterhead 4y agoThank you for saying this!
- akling 4y agoYou are already powerful enough! Some of our most active developers today didn't even know C++ when they started. If you're interested, look for something small that annoys you, and then see if you can't figure out enough of the code to fix it. :^)
- kramerger 4y agoAndreas, you are underestimating the complexity of C++ for mere mortals. Maybe you should take a break from SerenityOS and write a book about the useful/practical subset of the C++ language??
- breckinloggins 4y agoSome of the comments demonstrate that there are a lot of people here who have never encountered programming in an artistic context before. That is a sad (though understandable) state of affairs.
- rvense 4y agoWell, our prophet pg did write somewhere that the reason to join a startup was to get rich. These people aren't coding for the lambos? Seems immoral to me /s
- sph 4y agoEven though I agree with you, there are no such comments that I can find, or not enough to warrant your knee jerk reaction. No need to build a straw man.
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- djbusby 4y agoHere http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html And here: http://www.paulgraham.com/richnow.html http://www.paulgraham.com/richnow.html First DDG results for "Paul gramm get rich"
- timc3 4y agoCongratulations to SerenityOS! Quite amazing seeing the progress over this relatively short time.
- rcarmo 4y agoI played around with this a few months back and really wished they were targeting ARM. I wonder if that will ever be on the cards...
- efficax 4y agoI believe it works on aarch64, there's even a raspberry pi target. Don't know the state though.
- rcarmo 4y agoAfter reading this I clicked through to their Discord and it's reached the point where it's crashing QEMU on the host, and discussions are from October 1st. Would love to see this boot on a Pi.
- danjoredd 4y agoIf you have the time, that might be a good project!
- robryan 4y agoThere are a number of people actively pushing ARM support forward.
- squarefoot 4y agoIf ported to ARM it could become quite a thing in embedded development. I'm not thinking about the latest Macs (although... why not?) but rather very small and cheap embedded boards where Linux could be either too resource hungry or overkill. On these small boards a very light GUI oriented OS like SerenityOS and a set of gfx libraries and primitives could be the right tools to make appliance control panels, instrumentation, etc, and of course general computing.
- girvo 4y agoIt would basically be what QNX could've been (and almost was).
- rewgs 4y agoThis is just so cool and inspiring to me. I check out pretty much everything Andreas puts out. I wonder if we're watching something comparable to the birth of Linux. I'm not insinuating that Linux would go away or die or anything -- that's absurd -- but I just mean perhaps over time SerenityOS will become more and more used as a "real" OS. For what purpose(s)? No idea. But the whole project really seems to have staying power. That said, I'm fully with Andreas that having fun and simply building something because you want it to exist are valid goals in and of themselves. Couldn't be happier for him and everyone who contributes to the project.
- systemvoltage 4y agoHe streams regularly, check it out and support if you can: https://www.youtube.com/c/AndreasKling/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/AndreasKling/videos
- bee_rider 4y agoWhere does the money for this project come from? I kinda wonder if "streamer who develops code" could be a viable open source business model, haha.
- Huh1337 4y agoSponsorship via Github is the primary stream AFAIK
- akling 4y agoThat's right, as of May 2021 I'm working on SerenityOS full time, supported by donations. :) I posted this about it at the time: https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-SerenityOS-full-time/ https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-Ser...
- forgotpwd16 4y agoMostly donations. See: https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-SerenityOS-full-time/ https://awesomekling.github.io/I-quit-my-job-to-focus-on-Ser...
- DustinBrett 4y agoAndreas and his project SerenityOS was a huge inspiration for me to start my side project daedalOS (https://github.com/DustinBrett/daedalOS https://github.com/DustinBrett/daedalOS) which I've almost been doing for 2 years now. I really enjoy watching his monthly updates on his channel.
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- Aaronstotle 4y agoWhat an amazing project, first heard about it here when it launched.
- seti0Cha 4y ago> The original Jakt prototype was written in Rust by myself and JT over a couple of weeks before we made it public. I wrote a post introducing Jakt and the motivations behind it. And JT made a video about the creation of Jakt as well. The Rust-based compiler is now long-gone, and Jakt is fully self-hosted with the Jakt compiler being written in Jakt itself. It's always humbling for me to read updates from SerenityOS :)
- forgotpwd16 4y agoThis is good for Jakt but why another language?
- rvense 4y agoWhy another OS? Why does anyone ever do anything?
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- kramerger 4y agoIt's all part of Andreas' grand plan for serenity OS. Ask him about "the plan" next time he goes live :)
- ndiddy 4y agoThis post goes over his motivation: https://awesomekling.github.io/Memory-safety-for-SerenityOS/ https://awesomekling.github.io/Memory-safety-for-SerenityOS/
- forgotpwd16 4y ago>I have nothing bad to say about other languages. This is simply the option that makes the most sense for SerenityOS, which is fundamentally about having fun and implementing everything ourselves. Kinda was expecting this but would've also liked see some critique of other languages.
- nonbirithm 4y agoI think there is more behind SerenityOS that elevates it above being just another OS project. They've attracted hundreds of contributors and have instilled a unique sense of culture within their community (as an example, going as far to devote an entire GitHub repository to documenting a list of "yak-shaving" yak emojis[1]). I think that kind of social endeavor isn't something a lot of maintainers can accomplish, not even those with the skills to work on such a project all by themselves. [1] https://github.com/SerenityOS/yaksplained https://github.com/SerenityOS/yaksplained
- edgyquant 4y agoI think it’s that most people are doomers and/or are defeated by doomerism. Most people think it’s impossible to build an OS or a web browser (and are told this when they ask for help building one.) In reality engineering is straightforward, you just need someone to show you how to properly write data structures and algorithms and to break problems down. Andreas showed these kids this, reinvigorating the web based hacker culture I grew up in. Anything is possible and even if a problem ends up being more than you can handle at least you learned a ton along the way. Now days searching for how to code leads you to a ton of tutorials about gluing modules together. I feel sorry for young people with that thirst who won’t be satisfied thanks to the commoditization of learning to code.
- systemvoltage 4y agoOne of the comments on Kling’s YT stream read: “Wish we could go back to 2004. Modern web has become toxic af” which embodies the spirit of this community pretty well I think. Andreas Kling is the messiah that is leading a group of people that are fed up with modernity.
- phist_mcgee 4y agoIronically, by using modern tools.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
- robbocodes 4y agoThe vibes of SerenityOS, Andreas, and the community are tremendous. I wish them many more years!
- pjmlp 4y agoIt is a great project and who knows, one day might come as standard in some OEM system. Happy birthday.
- low_tech_punk 4y agoThis project embodies Donald Knuth's principle of being the author of software, rather than just consumers of other's APIs. Yes, it takes patience and chutzpah, but I can also imagine how satisfying it is to build something from scratch and see all the pieces coming together into a working OS. And if you put your heart (and time) to it, you can build anything from scratch. A lesson the newer generation of developers still haven't fully grasped. Congrats, good luck, and carry on!
- stavros 4y ago> This project embodies Donald Knuth's principle of being the author of software, rather than just consumers of other's APIs. I feel that this comment unfairly criticizes people who build on other things. This OS runs on hardware, which is someone else's API, and is a hobby project, as far as I can tell. If someone wants to build something cool that uses others' APIs as a hobby project, more power to them.
- yardshop 4y agoIt's not criticizing anything at all, just suggesting an alternative. We're all always using products that are other people's work, why not ALSO work on something where you author and build your own system?
- stavros 4y agoAh, I thought you were talking about projects that make something novel vs projects that glue together APIs to create something new. I see what you mean now, sorry.
- yardshop 4y agoI'm not who you initially replied to, but I just felt he wasn't being critical of something else, just promoting an idea that is also of good value. I think there's value in creating new things by combining existing ones as well.
- 4y ago
- ianbutler 4y agoI follow Andreas on twitter and he is a big inspiration for me when I go look at more challenging problems now. I have an addictive personality, so far cigarettes are the only thing that got me and only for 4 years, but I largely stay away anything else now because I see how it effected members of my family and how easily someone like myself could go the same way. Because of that I very much appreciate channeling yourself into something as ambitious as an operating system instead. It's actually the same way I've built any of my best work and how I've gotten even this far in my career. The line I say is: programming keeps me sane.
- QuackyTheDuck 4y agoThank you for writing this, I can heavily relate.
- miki123211 4y agoI wouldn't be surprised if, at some point, some commercial project adopts a part of Serenity and turns it into a huge hit, even outside of tech. Such things have definitely happened in the past.. Not many (average) people have heard of KDE or its web engine, KHTML, but almost everybody these days uses Chrome, which, through Apple's WebKit, is descended from KHTML itself. Serenity uses its own libraries everywhere, to the point of replacing C++'s std with their own library, AK, which might make stripping it for parts more difficult, but it's certainly not unimaginable. If Serenity's web engine gets good enough, I can even imagine some EU government sponsoring an independent competitor to the Google / Apple browser duopoly.
- varajelle 4y agoFun fact: Andreas contributed to KHTML https://github.com/KDE/khtml/blob/41057a9a8e491b72c8296bf5ed6c094f9238dc5b/src/ChangeLog#L485 https://github.com/KDE/khtml/blob/41057a9a8e491b72c8296bf5ed...
- cardanome 4y agoWhich is why I wish they would use a less liberal and more copy-left license to keep the tech monopolists out. It is a huge problem that a certain tech monopolist controls the most popular browser in the world and a shame that this browser was build using the free labor of naive volunteer contributors that just wanted to help out an open source project. Linux would have never been so successful and kept being a free operating system without its GPL license. And even that turned out to be not enough protection, as the user-hostile Android system proves.
- sneak 4y agoIs this a viable daily driver on bare metal or does everyone who uses this run it in a VM?
- vkoskiv 4y agoIt's still in rapid development mode. Can be booted on bare metal, but it's not ready for prime time yet.
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- beeman 4y agoI found out about SerenityOS because of the post about Ladybird here on HN a few weeks back. I have since watched hours of his stream and found it super inspiring. To the extend that I now want to learn some C++ and make some contributions to the project. It's really refreshing to see people code for fun and build whatever they feel like. I think a lot of profesional devs lose that when they go all in on their work (which is understandable) so it's awesome to see something like this! Congrats on the 4 years! Looking forward to what's next!
- pjmlp 4y agoStart with "Programming -- Principles and Practice Using C++" from Bjarne Stroustoup. It is a good book to learn C++ the modern way, instead of a couple of appendixes in what is otherwise a C programming book.
- bumblebritches5 4y ago
- dperalta 4y agoHappy Birthday SerenityOS! And thank you very much to Andreas and the them behind it. You guys restored my faith in programming and for that I'll be forever grateful.