4 ms·

I referred to a combination of innate skill and experience, not one or the other. I did not say that marketing was a follow the cookbook type endeavor either.

by mroman 18y ago

I referred to a combination of innate skill and experience, not one or the other. I did not say that marketing was a follow the cookbook type endeavor either. Problem with this point is that, neither one of us in this small debate has any hard data to back up or counter our respective points (does any exist? I personally doubt it) which are highly subjective anyway, mostly based on anecdotal perception. I stick by my opinion however, and can point to the relative number of programmers versus marketing people in the global workforce as indicative of what I am saying . . . if more people were smart enough to program, as opposed to market, they would . . . Marketing has its place, but to an admittedly occasionally arrogant geek such as myself (who has come across some incredibly, impossibly dumb marketing types) they are figuratively just the people who stand outside the shop on the sidewalk and try to get people to step inside and look at the wares . . .

jamiequint 18y ago
"I stick by my opinion however, and can point to the relative number of programmers versus marketing people in the global workforce as indicative of what I am saying . . . if more people were smart enough to program, as opposed to market, they would . . ." Can you further explain here? Market forces will determine where people go, salaries will rise until people move into those positions. The number of people in given positions is not indicative at all of the skill of the people taking those jobs. "Marketing has its place, but to an admittedly occasionally arrogant geek such as myself (who has come across some incredibly, impossibly dumb marketing types) they are figuratively just the people who stand outside the shop on the sidewalk and try to get people to step inside and look at the wares . . ." I agree with you that this is an extremely arrogant viewpoint. I've met many stupid programmers but I don't assume the same of all programmers. I also think you're confusing the roles of sales and marketing but that's beside the point. Discounting the value of people who aren't like you isn't a very great way to get anywhere in life, especially as an entrepreneur.
- mroman 18y ago
  The numbers speak for themselves. That is obvious. You are not reading what I write. I did not mention skill, I mentioned intelligence. Those are not the same. It is quite simple. Look at all occupations. There are more non-intellectually demanding jobs than there are intellectually demanding jobs. There are more dumb people than smart people on the planet. That is obvious. Speaking of market forces, why are programmers on average paid more than marketing and sales people? You have met stupid programmers? Interesting. I agree that not all are extremely bright, however, anyone who is truly stupid will not be able to even learn how to program, much less become worthy of the title programmer, whereas, I have seen some nearly illiterate folks working in marketing, and sales, and I realize those two are different, even though I do not bother to differentiate between the two when making reference to them. "Discounting the value of people who aren't like you isn't a very great way to get anywhere in life, especially as an entrepreneur." Neat, now you are starting the personal attacks.
  - jamiequint 18y ago
    "You are not reading what I write. I did not mention skill, I mentioned intelligence. Those are not the same." Innate skill and intelligence are pretty much the same thing. (Although I would argue that intelligence can grow as a function of effort). "Speaking of market forces, why are programmers on average paid more than marketing and sales people?" The pay of programmers vs. marketers is pretty comparable. Check salary.com "Neat, now you are starting the personal attacks." No, just responding to your multi-post personal attack against marketers/bizdev with one against arrogance. Its up to you whether to take it personally. I have more points I could make, but this doesn't seem to be going anywhere useful so I'm done with this discussion.
    - mroman 18y ago
      Innate skill and intelligence are most definitely NOT, NOT pretty much the same thing. Check an English language dictionary. salary.com? Please. I wrote "on average".
      - jamiequint 18y ago

by mroman 18y ago

jamiequint 18y ago

"I stick by my opinion however, and can point to the relative number of programmers versus marketing people in the global workforce as indicative of what I am saying . . . if more people were smart enough to program, as opposed to market, they would . . ." Can you further explain here? Market forces will determine where people go, salaries will rise until people move into those positions. The number of people in given positions is not indicative at all of the skill of the people taking those jobs. "Marketing has its place, but to an admittedly occasionally arrogant geek such as myself (who has come across some incredibly, impossibly dumb marketing types) they are figuratively just the people who stand outside the shop on the sidewalk and try to get people to step inside and look at the wares . . ." I agree with you that this is an extremely arrogant viewpoint. I've met many stupid programmers but I don't assume the same of all programmers. I also think you're confusing the roles of sales and marketing but that's beside the point. Discounting the value of people who aren't like you isn't a very great way to get anywhere in life, especially as an entrepreneur.

mroman 18y ago
The numbers speak for themselves. That is obvious. You are not reading what I write. I did not mention skill, I mentioned intelligence. Those are not the same. It is quite simple. Look at all occupations. There are more non-intellectually demanding jobs than there are intellectually demanding jobs. There are more dumb people than smart people on the planet. That is obvious. Speaking of market forces, why are programmers on average paid more than marketing and sales people? You have met stupid programmers? Interesting. I agree that not all are extremely bright, however, anyone who is truly stupid will not be able to even learn how to program, much less become worthy of the title programmer, whereas, I have seen some nearly illiterate folks working in marketing, and sales, and I realize those two are different, even though I do not bother to differentiate between the two when making reference to them. "Discounting the value of people who aren't like you isn't a very great way to get anywhere in life, especially as an entrepreneur." Neat, now you are starting the personal attacks.
- jamiequint 18y ago
  "You are not reading what I write. I did not mention skill, I mentioned intelligence. Those are not the same." Innate skill and intelligence are pretty much the same thing. (Although I would argue that intelligence can grow as a function of effort). "Speaking of market forces, why are programmers on average paid more than marketing and sales people?" The pay of programmers vs. marketers is pretty comparable. Check salary.com "Neat, now you are starting the personal attacks." No, just responding to your multi-post personal attack against marketers/bizdev with one against arrogance. Its up to you whether to take it personally. I have more points I could make, but this doesn't seem to be going anywhere useful so I'm done with this discussion.
  - mroman 18y ago
    Innate skill and intelligence are most definitely NOT, NOT pretty much the same thing. Check an English language dictionary. salary.com? Please. I wrote "on average".
    - jamiequint 18y ago