3 ms·

they talk about holistic systems and then just hacked some shit together like everybody else, very let down. "hubris" is an apt choice of name.

wmf 4y ago
What would your criteria be for a holistic yet non-hacked-together boot process? How do you decide what layers/abstractions are needed and what are not? (Also, user name checks out.)
- haskellandchill 4y ago
  I think holistic implies some principles guiding design decisions, drawing something from research areas like formal methods, programming language theory, operating systems, hardware, etc and unifying them more of what the cited talk It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware covered.
  - chungy 4y ago
    Maybe your generation 2 will be called "Humility" to reflect lessons learned :)
    - bcantrill 4y ago
      We're one step ahead of you: Humility is actually the debugger for Hubris.[0] [0] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/humility https://github.com/oxidecomputer/humility
      - chungy 4y ago
        Haha, that's pretty clever :) The intended point was more that the concept can be iterated upon. I think you'd be the last to claim Hubris ought to be the end-all-be-all of holistic operating systems.
      - haskellandchill 4y ago
        the tooling in the demo was impressive, and I don't mean to be overly critical I have gazed into the os/hardware abyss and I'm still paralyzed to figure out an approach. and maybe you will find what I'm looking for out there, or maybe we are looking for different things and that is fine too. it's certainly better than doing nothing.
- mmphosis 4y ago
  An audited open core CPU like RISC-V. “Instant” on booting from my camera card with the starting address set with DIP switches. That is all.
  - haskellandchill 4y ago
    that's nice but doesn't speak to any "holistic"ness.
welkjl 4y ago
- haskellandchill 4y ago
  they certainly have talent, which is the reason for my disappointment
  - magnawave 4y ago
    Indeed doing what they have done is impressive, and talented folks at play for sure. Not sure, even vaguely commercially viable(heck 0xide as a whole), but nerdy interesting for sure. But I can’t see practically why this is so much more useful than what society has built together and call the x86 platform over the last few decades.

wmf 4y ago

What would your criteria be for a holistic yet non-hacked-together boot process? How do you decide what layers/abstractions are needed and what are not? (Also, user name checks out.)

haskellandchill 4y ago
I think holistic implies some principles guiding design decisions, drawing something from research areas like formal methods, programming language theory, operating systems, hardware, etc and unifying them more of what the cited talk It's Time for Operating Systems to Rediscover Hardware covered.
- chungy 4y ago
  Maybe your generation 2 will be called "Humility" to reflect lessons learned :)
  - bcantrill 4y ago
    We're one step ahead of you: Humility is actually the debugger for Hubris.[0] [0] https://github.com/oxidecomputer/humility https://github.com/oxidecomputer/humility
    - chungy 4y ago
      Haha, that's pretty clever :) The intended point was more that the concept can be iterated upon. I think you'd be the last to claim Hubris ought to be the end-all-be-all of holistic operating systems.
    - haskellandchill 4y ago
      the tooling in the demo was impressive, and I don't mean to be overly critical I have gazed into the os/hardware abyss and I'm still paralyzed to figure out an approach. and maybe you will find what I'm looking for out there, or maybe we are looking for different things and that is fine too. it's certainly better than doing nothing.
mmphosis 4y ago
An audited open core CPU like RISC-V. “Instant” on booting from my camera card with the starting address set with DIP switches. That is all.
- haskellandchill 4y ago
  that's nice but doesn't speak to any "holistic"ness.

welkjl 4y ago

haskellandchill 4y ago
they certainly have talent, which is the reason for my disappointment
- magnawave 4y ago
  Indeed doing what they have done is impressive, and talented folks at play for sure. Not sure, even vaguely commercially viable(heck 0xide as a whole), but nerdy interesting for sure. But I can’t see practically why this is so much more useful than what society has built together and call the x86 platform over the last few decades.