4 ms·

Are they assembling or manufacturing? If you need to import all your raw materials then you're not really manufacturing anything and I seriously doubt that anyo

Are they assembling or manufacturing? If you need to import all your raw materials then you're not really manufacturing anything and I seriously doubt that anyone in this country is willing to do the dirty bad breaking work for low wages with no prospect of ever owning your home.

yucky 4y ago
>with no prospect of ever owning your home. It's strange to me how often this gets repeated as if nobody can look at Zillow and do basic math. I just checked a random suburb of Detroit (you know, since we're talking manufacturing) and in Warren MI right now there are 64 houses for less than $100k. There are hundreds more in the city of Detroit, but it's dangerous so people may not want to live there. Plus, there are a ton of factories in Warren, so what better place to look? No prospects of ever owning a home? Or no prospects of moving straight into your dream home in a hip downtown area near the coast at 26 years old? Let's call it what it is.
- guestbest 4y ago
  Real estate people think location is so important they will say it three times. I wonder why?
  - yucky 4y ago
    "No prospect of ever owning a home (...in the absolute most desirable areas of the country)" In other news, I'll probably never be able to afford a Bentley, so I guess I have no prospects of ever owning a car.
    - Consultant32452 4y ago
      "The American Dream" has also slippery sloped itself from a house with a white picket fence in a safe suburban neighborhood to if I don't become Elon Musk then there is no American Dream.
    - sethammons 4y ago
      Part of the problem is when regulation and incentives push to make it so only Bentleys are profitable to make. My friends owns a house on five acres in a city in Montana. They wanted to carve out an acre or two for their adult kid to build on. They must put in a road, sidewalks, connect to sewer, and city water even though they are on a well and septic. Light poles, geologic surveys, and wildly expensive permits. They were not prepared for over $200k of development and fees before even laying down the house foundation. Now the land stays empty. The land itself is sellable apparently for several hundred thousand dollars. A developer would be insane to buy and develop the land and sell a house for anything under a cool million. Originally they thought they could spend about $70k and let their kid build. Nope.
      - no-s 4y ago
        > Part of the problem is when regulation and incentives push to make it so only Bentleys are profitable to make. I’ll second this. Almost everywhere you go in the US are mandates that dramatically increase the cost of developing your own property (i.e. as a taxpaying individual, not as an incorporated developer). I own property and want to develop it for elderly low-income family members to enjoy, incidentally creating low-income housing consistent with the area, but permits and fees are roughly 40% of my costs. The building permit costs extra because the materials used (mostly dirt!!!) are non-flammable ! The square footage is based on the perimeter of the structure but I’m building with stabilized adobe (AKA DIRT!!!!) thus building code requires a wall thickness of 14”, resulting in substantial percentage of unusable square footage contributing to the permit cost and later property tax. Flood control district required mitigations are founded on an incorrect hazard map which results in extra expense and extra permitting costs. And so on, e.g. road access fees for roads which are never built in 25 years of fee collection, new fees for water service maintenance supposedly covered in past bills but audits kept confidential for security, legal costs to sue the county to follow it’s own rules... (edit: wow, my knee really jerked on this one. So infuriated)
      - guestbest 4y ago
        Trailers aren’t taxed like this because they have wheels. That is also why they are so popular
      - 4y ago
- stonogo 4y ago
  Now look at Indeed and do basic math. Looking at the job ads for Warren, MI indicate there are no manufacturing jobs that pay more than $20 per hour, and most of those are part-time or term-limited. They're even trying to pay certified forklift operators sixteen bucks an hour. Good luck saving up your 20% down payment on Warren, MI wages.
  - yucky 4y ago
    That forklift operator (certification by the way, is a one day training and test) could be 18 years old living at home and save up the $20k for a downpayment in a year or two. Longer if they're not really trying. So again, we end up with a non-college educated forklift driver being able to buy a home near where they work in a couple of years time.
baremetal 4y ago
> If you need to import all your raw materials then you're not really manufacturing anything China imports a large amount of raw materials[1] and yet it is a manufacturing powerhouse. https://commodity.com/data/china/ https://commodity.com/data/china/
formerkrogemp 4y ago
> you need to import all your raw materials then you're not really manufacturing anything What a weird and unorthodox definition of manufacturing. Do you expect every factory to also have an attached mine and lumberyard and smelter and mill?
thehappypm 4y ago
This is a bizarre take. You’re saying if you don’t grow the cotton, your textile factory doesn’t count as manufacturing?

yucky 4y ago

>with no prospect of ever owning your home. It's strange to me how often this gets repeated as if nobody can look at Zillow and do basic math. I just checked a random suburb of Detroit (you know, since we're talking manufacturing) and in Warren MI right now there are 64 houses for less than $100k. There are hundreds more in the city of Detroit, but it's dangerous so people may not want to live there. Plus, there are a ton of factories in Warren, so what better place to look? No prospects of ever owning a home? Or no prospects of moving straight into your dream home in a hip downtown area near the coast at 26 years old? Let's call it what it is.

guestbest 4y ago
Real estate people think location is so important they will say it three times. I wonder why?
- yucky 4y ago
  "No prospect of ever owning a home (...in the absolute most desirable areas of the country)" In other news, I'll probably never be able to afford a Bentley, so I guess I have no prospects of ever owning a car.
  - Consultant32452 4y ago
    "The American Dream" has also slippery sloped itself from a house with a white picket fence in a safe suburban neighborhood to if I don't become Elon Musk then there is no American Dream.
  - sethammons 4y ago
    Part of the problem is when regulation and incentives push to make it so only Bentleys are profitable to make. My friends owns a house on five acres in a city in Montana. They wanted to carve out an acre or two for their adult kid to build on. They must put in a road, sidewalks, connect to sewer, and city water even though they are on a well and septic. Light poles, geologic surveys, and wildly expensive permits. They were not prepared for over $200k of development and fees before even laying down the house foundation. Now the land stays empty. The land itself is sellable apparently for several hundred thousand dollars. A developer would be insane to buy and develop the land and sell a house for anything under a cool million. Originally they thought they could spend about $70k and let their kid build. Nope.
    - no-s 4y ago
      > Part of the problem is when regulation and incentives push to make it so only Bentleys are profitable to make. I’ll second this. Almost everywhere you go in the US are mandates that dramatically increase the cost of developing your own property (i.e. as a taxpaying individual, not as an incorporated developer). I own property and want to develop it for elderly low-income family members to enjoy, incidentally creating low-income housing consistent with the area, but permits and fees are roughly 40% of my costs. The building permit costs extra because the materials used (mostly dirt!!!) are non-flammable ! The square footage is based on the perimeter of the structure but I’m building with stabilized adobe (AKA DIRT!!!!) thus building code requires a wall thickness of 14”, resulting in substantial percentage of unusable square footage contributing to the permit cost and later property tax. Flood control district required mitigations are founded on an incorrect hazard map which results in extra expense and extra permitting costs. And so on, e.g. road access fees for roads which are never built in 25 years of fee collection, new fees for water service maintenance supposedly covered in past bills but audits kept confidential for security, legal costs to sue the county to follow it’s own rules... (edit: wow, my knee really jerked on this one. So infuriated)
    - guestbest 4y ago
      Trailers aren’t taxed like this because they have wheels. That is also why they are so popular
    - 4y ago
stonogo 4y ago
Now look at Indeed and do basic math. Looking at the job ads for Warren, MI indicate there are no manufacturing jobs that pay more than $20 per hour, and most of those are part-time or term-limited. They're even trying to pay certified forklift operators sixteen bucks an hour. Good luck saving up your 20% down payment on Warren, MI wages.
- yucky 4y ago
  That forklift operator (certification by the way, is a one day training and test) could be 18 years old living at home and save up the $20k for a downpayment in a year or two. Longer if they're not really trying. So again, we end up with a non-college educated forklift driver being able to buy a home near where they work in a couple of years time.

baremetal 4y ago

> If you need to import all your raw materials then you're not really manufacturing anything China imports a large amount of raw materials[1] and yet it is a manufacturing powerhouse. https://commodity.com/data/china/ https://commodity.com/data/china/

formerkrogemp 4y ago

> you need to import all your raw materials then you're not really manufacturing anything What a weird and unorthodox definition of manufacturing. Do you expect every factory to also have an attached mine and lumberyard and smelter and mill?

thehappypm 4y ago

This is a bizarre take. You’re saying if you don’t grow the cotton, your textile factory doesn’t count as manufacturing?