3 ms·

I think it is evil because it basically amounts to making a bet with other people's money . . . I realize that "what if" scenarios sound unrealistic at times, h

by mroman 18y ago

I think it is evil because it basically amounts to making a bet with other people's money . . . I realize that "what if" scenarios sound unrealistic at times, however . . . seriously, what if - in that particular case with Gates, for example - the product had turned out to have some major showstopping flaws? Consumers/users ALWAYS get screwed in those type of scenarios. I don't believe in taking risks with other people's money.

trapper 18y ago
When I said "fake sell" I was meaning using it to prove a market. The process is as follows: 1. Create mockup/demo/realistic brochure/non-functional physical prototype 2. Go to your target market. Count number of targets 3. Try to sell them the product at the target price 4. Once they hand over their credit card etc, just hand it back. 5. Tell them thanks very much for their support, but this was a test so you can make sure the market wants the product, if they want we can contact them when/if the product is ready. 6. Do your stats. What proportion of the target market you sampled bought the product. Extrapolate to the estimated population to get an idea of how many units you can sell. [rinse and repeat to make your product more attractive to the market] It's the only way I have ever heard of turning a snake-oil, soothsayer business plan into one that can statistically show the uptake of your product in the market.
- mroman 18y ago
  My, that's neat, wasting people's time with a marketing survey under the guise of an actual product offer.
  - trapper 18y ago
    Yeah. Your way wastes everyones time as the product isn't right from the start and it's harder to build a great business, as you don't know if you'll ever get paid. Everyone to their own though. I'd rather be sure.
    - mroman 18y ago
      Oh, "my way" involves solving the problem of "how to find out what users want" WITHOUT resorting to shady little tactics. I refuse to believe that there is no other way of conducting a market study other than resorting to sneaky, dastardly little tactics. Why? because there ARE other ways. Also, nice strawman, I obviously did not counter with "conduct NO market studies/surveys" - I came back with "that's dishonest and I don't believe in it". Funny, how I have set up services (granted, not products) that made me money and I did not have to resort to cheap little deceptive tricks.
      - trapper 18y ago
        1. How can you be sure someone wants to pay for something unless they bring out their credit card? I would love to know a better way. 2. Is it unethical to sell a product that isn't right for the market, and promote half truths like most advertising does? Which is better in the long run? I would rather have a product I can be statistically confident is going to sell because users have wanted to pay for it. There's no debating whether it's right for the market or not. Thanks for the discussion by the way, this is fun :). If you do have a better way I'd love to know.
        mroman 18y ago
        I keep trying to post a reply, and this app simply hangs and then displays a blank screen.
        mroman 18y ago
        As I mentioned, finding out what the users want is a worthwhile problem in and of itself. There can be no one true formula, as not all scenarios are the same.
        mroman 18y ago
        What has worked for me in the past (for the provision of services) has been a combination of becoming intimately acquainted with a process, and talking to people who carry out this process regularly, both with the intention of identifying where a need can be fulfilled. I am not talking about a bullet list of features to checkmark or cross out, that's junk, users don't LIE about a feature that they say they need and then don't, no, users simply do not know what they truly need a lot of the time, I don't focus on getting them to tell me a feature per se or a highly detailed aspect of the service I aim to provide them with (because what the hell do they know about the work I am doing, they know about the work they do, which is why I go to them) I focus on obtaining information and insight from them. I aim to give people what they need, as opposed to what they want . . . why? because if you just give them what they need, they will thank you for it later when they realize that this is what they needed, if you give them what they want, they will later realize that is not what they needed, but will not blame themselves for it, they will blame you.

by mroman 18y ago

trapper 18y ago

When I said "fake sell" I was meaning using it to prove a market. The process is as follows: 1. Create mockup/demo/realistic brochure/non-functional physical prototype 2. Go to your target market. Count number of targets 3. Try to sell them the product at the target price 4. Once they hand over their credit card etc, just hand it back. 5. Tell them thanks very much for their support, but this was a test so you can make sure the market wants the product, if they want we can contact them when/if the product is ready. 6. Do your stats. What proportion of the target market you sampled bought the product. Extrapolate to the estimated population to get an idea of how many units you can sell. [rinse and repeat to make your product more attractive to the market] It's the only way I have ever heard of turning a snake-oil, soothsayer business plan into one that can statistically show the uptake of your product in the market.

mroman 18y ago
My, that's neat, wasting people's time with a marketing survey under the guise of an actual product offer.
- trapper 18y ago
  Yeah. Your way wastes everyones time as the product isn't right from the start and it's harder to build a great business, as you don't know if you'll ever get paid. Everyone to their own though. I'd rather be sure.
  - mroman 18y ago
    Oh, "my way" involves solving the problem of "how to find out what users want" WITHOUT resorting to shady little tactics. I refuse to believe that there is no other way of conducting a market study other than resorting to sneaky, dastardly little tactics. Why? because there ARE other ways. Also, nice strawman, I obviously did not counter with "conduct NO market studies/surveys" - I came back with "that's dishonest and I don't believe in it". Funny, how I have set up services (granted, not products) that made me money and I did not have to resort to cheap little deceptive tricks.
    - trapper 18y ago
      1. How can you be sure someone wants to pay for something unless they bring out their credit card? I would love to know a better way. 2. Is it unethical to sell a product that isn't right for the market, and promote half truths like most advertising does? Which is better in the long run? I would rather have a product I can be statistically confident is going to sell because users have wanted to pay for it. There's no debating whether it's right for the market or not. Thanks for the discussion by the way, this is fun :). If you do have a better way I'd love to know.
      - mroman 18y ago
        I keep trying to post a reply, and this app simply hangs and then displays a blank screen.
        mroman 18y ago
        As I mentioned, finding out what the users want is a worthwhile problem in and of itself. There can be no one true formula, as not all scenarios are the same.
        mroman 18y ago
        What has worked for me in the past (for the provision of services) has been a combination of becoming intimately acquainted with a process, and talking to people who carry out this process regularly, both with the intention of identifying where a need can be fulfilled. I am not talking about a bullet list of features to checkmark or cross out, that's junk, users don't LIE about a feature that they say they need and then don't, no, users simply do not know what they truly need a lot of the time, I don't focus on getting them to tell me a feature per se or a highly detailed aspect of the service I aim to provide them with (because what the hell do they know about the work I am doing, they know about the work they do, which is why I go to them) I focus on obtaining information and insight from them. I aim to give people what they need, as opposed to what they want . . . why? because if you just give them what they need, they will thank you for it later when they realize that this is what they needed, if you give them what they want, they will later realize that is not what they needed, but will not blame themselves for it, they will blame you.