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Towing with My Ford Lightning EV Pickup Was a Total Disaster

10 points by RadixDLT 4y ago

theluketaylor 4y ago
EV towing is likely is toughest use case for personal transportation, but it's worth noting Hoovie has the small battery Lightning and towed at well over 70 mph. Slowing down even a little would have resulted in a different experience since aerodynamic drag is the biggest range killer. That's not to say the issues he raises are not real, they absolutely are. Towing with an EV is painful since most charging locations don't have pull-through stalls and the range hit with a trailer is no joke. ICE vehicles are so inefficient to begin with and refuelling so quick and simple people don't typically notice how big a hit towing is. Batteries just don't have much energy in the compared to fuel, so reducing the efficiency has very apparent impacts.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  Yah for sure. You just need 250-300 KWH batteries to have a decent towing machine. Which right now means it will cost $120k and weigh 10k pounds. Which isn’t practical for most people. Batteries are getting light just maybe not fast enough…
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    I have a hunch this is part of the reason why Tesla delayed the Cybertruck but is full steam ahead with the Tesla Semi. Commercial fleet buyers (PepsiCo/Frito Lay taking delivery first) have straightforward requirements and more control over where chargers can be sited. They also have no problem paying $180k per unit (with a potential $40k federal tax credit per) considering their capital resources/leasing and the petroleum cost savings. They are not buying big batteries that then sit in a garage; those vehicles will be utilized as much as possible. The consumer market willing to pay such costs is much, much smaller for an EV garage queen that only tows a few times a year. If you tow often, at some point, you’ll just buy the Semi (as I see diesel costs in my area are currently running $5/gallon, and F250 fuel tanks range in size from 34 to 43 gallons).
    - brianwawok 4y ago
      Yah I just think it’s not great product market fit right now. Not sure what’s the fix, trailers with batteries? But who wants a $40,000 boat trailer?
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        Like aviation, might be a use case where there is no avoiding combustion. Probably biodiesel until battery energy density sufficiently improves for light vehicle towing. You can’t replace all transportation with biofuels, but there is room at the margins for some mix of hydrogen, ammonia, ag and waste oil fuel, etc.
        brianwawok 4y ago
        If you watch the road, any given day < 1% of people tow. But ~20% buy a truck because they might want to tow.
      - theluketaylor 4y ago
        Ford has a patent out on a removable bed box that contains a range extender. Looks like it's not just a defensive patent either; they have been spotted testing something very similar. With a big battery capable of providing extra juice when climbing long hills or accelerating they should be able to put a fairly small engine in and always run it at peak efficiency. Especially if they can be rented from a dealer it would really takes care of the casual truck user's needs. I have a buddy who daily drives his F-150 to work and then a couple times a year tows a big camper long distance for family vacations. His daily needs could easily be electric and he could rent an extender for 3 or 4 weeks a year to tow with. It would still slash his annual fuel consumption and as biodiesel or other synthetic fuel becomes available/reasonably practical even with a big truck his carbon emissions would be very low (it does help the grid here in Ontario is extremely clean already)
        brianwawok 4y ago
        Yah that would do it. We also need higher power chargers or maybe the ability to plug in 2 to really maximize a huge battery. Ideally you want to charge a 300 KwH battery at like 600 Kw/h or higher.

10 points by RadixDLT 4y ago

EV towing is likely is toughest use case for personal transportation, but it's worth noting Hoovie has the small battery Lightning and towed at well over 70 mph. Slowing down even a little would have resulted in a different experience since aerodynamic drag is the biggest range killer. That's not to say the issues he raises are not real, they absolutely are. Towing with an EV is painful since most charging locations don't have pull-through stalls and the range hit with a trailer is no joke. ICE vehicles are so inefficient to begin with and refuelling so quick and simple people don't typically notice how big a hit towing is. Batteries just don't have much energy in the compared to fuel, so reducing the efficiency has very apparent impacts.

brianwawok 4y ago
Yah for sure. You just need 250-300 KWH batteries to have a decent towing machine. Which right now means it will cost $120k and weigh 10k pounds. Which isn’t practical for most people. Batteries are getting light just maybe not fast enough…
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  I have a hunch this is part of the reason why Tesla delayed the Cybertruck but is full steam ahead with the Tesla Semi. Commercial fleet buyers (PepsiCo/Frito Lay taking delivery first) have straightforward requirements and more control over where chargers can be sited. They also have no problem paying $180k per unit (with a potential $40k federal tax credit per) considering their capital resources/leasing and the petroleum cost savings. They are not buying big batteries that then sit in a garage; those vehicles will be utilized as much as possible. The consumer market willing to pay such costs is much, much smaller for an EV garage queen that only tows a few times a year. If you tow often, at some point, you’ll just buy the Semi (as I see diesel costs in my area are currently running $5/gallon, and F250 fuel tanks range in size from 34 to 43 gallons).
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    Yah I just think it’s not great product market fit right now. Not sure what’s the fix, trailers with batteries? But who wants a $40,000 boat trailer?
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      Like aviation, might be a use case where there is no avoiding combustion. Probably biodiesel until battery energy density sufficiently improves for light vehicle towing. You can’t replace all transportation with biofuels, but there is room at the margins for some mix of hydrogen, ammonia, ag and waste oil fuel, etc.
      - brianwawok 4y ago
        If you watch the road, any given day < 1% of people tow. But ~20% buy a truck because they might want to tow.
    - theluketaylor 4y ago
      Ford has a patent out on a removable bed box that contains a range extender. Looks like it's not just a defensive patent either; they have been spotted testing something very similar. With a big battery capable of providing extra juice when climbing long hills or accelerating they should be able to put a fairly small engine in and always run it at peak efficiency. Especially if they can be rented from a dealer it would really takes care of the casual truck user's needs. I have a buddy who daily drives his F-150 to work and then a couple times a year tows a big camper long distance for family vacations. His daily needs could easily be electric and he could rent an extender for 3 or 4 weeks a year to tow with. It would still slash his annual fuel consumption and as biodiesel or other synthetic fuel becomes available/reasonably practical even with a big truck his carbon emissions would be very low (it does help the grid here in Ontario is extremely clean already)
      - brianwawok 4y ago
        Yah that would do it. We also need higher power chargers or maybe the ability to plug in 2 to really maximize a huge battery. Ideally you want to charge a 300 KwH battery at like 600 Kw/h or higher.