4 ms·

> I find it really unlikely the people that need it would really mind some age verification or another extra safety step when ordering it. Well, you just artic

> I find it really unlikely the people that need it would really mind some age verification or another extra safety step when ordering it. Well, you just articulated one of the major social benefits. We do really mind. The benefits are clearly not zero, like you claimed. What you didn’t articulate is an argument for why we should invest so much — and give up privacy and our freedoms — to try (and fail) to prevent such a vanishingly small number of self-inflicted deaths. This is emotional outrage bait, not a basis for instituting evidence-based policy. Frankly, it’s not our problem, and not our cost to be bourne. If you want to take away anyone’s ability to use the internet for commerce without interference, why don’t you you start with taking away your own children’s free access to the internet and credit cards, rather than everyone else? You can do that yourself, today — and probably should.

CPLX 4y ago
Who is we? You order highly lethal lab chemicals from a one click consumer products site you use to restock your kitchen or is this some kind of hypothetical cost you’re worried about incurring here? If this is really your approach to consumer product safety then I suppose you’re consistent, if wrong. I bet it’s not though. I suspect you’re pretty happy with the outcome of a framework where dangerous products are regulated. The freedom argument is specious we don’t regulate commerce with corporate freedom as an overriding value. We mandate everything from child proof packaging to rear view mirrors to alcohol consumption of pilots to competence exams for barbers to labeling for Doritos. I suspect most in this thread are idly arguing from bias rather than reading the facts of Amazon’s behavior here it’s pretty indefensible. Our tech giants are corporations and the things they produce are products. By a few historical accidents (especially section 230) and a shit ton of corporate PR we have been conditioned not to evaluate them as consumer products that can be defective and harmful but we should start.
- catiopatio 4y ago
  > You order highly lethal lab chemicals from a one click consumer products site Yes, I do. You do too. Your medicine cabinet and cleaning supplies are full of lethal “lab chemicals” that would kill if ingested, or ingested in even mild excess. But this isn’t even a “highly lethal lab chemical”, it’s just sodium nitrate; mined straight from the earth, and has been used as a food preservative for at least a couple centuries. > … you use to restock your kitchen It’s none of your business what we buy these things for, whether it’s to stock our kitchen for meat preservation, or backyard science experiments with our kids. > The freedom argument is specious we don’t regulate commerce with corporate freedom as an overriding value. The freedom you’re attacking out of emotional panic isn’t Amazon’s. They can comply with whatever arbitrary nonsensical “save the children” crap you invent, and compliance will cost a microscopic percentage of their overall revenue. The freedom you’re attacking is mine, and everyone else’s. Take responsibility for yourself and your own children. If you can’t do that, blame yourself, not me.
  - CPLX 4y ago
    You want to be free to see a handbook with suicide instructions next to the pure sodium nitrite you order? That’s the freedom you are personally advocating for? You’re not seeing anything about this turn of events that could be improved upon? Do you also want to be free to buy baby formula and not be sure what’s in it, or a car where the seatbelts fail if you weigh over 150lbs? Do you want freedom to see pornographic billboards near the playground? These things aren’t freedom by any recognizable definition. They’re just defective products made by unaccountable corporations. Like Amazon’s recommendation engine in this case. The idea that corporations should just be able to do whatever they want is so fucking toxic. Seeing this attitude pervasive here on the discussion board of the private equity firm that’s advised so much of our modern tech culture sure does explain a lot though.
    - catiopatio 4y ago
      > You want to be free to see a handbook with suicide instructions next to the pure sodium nitrite you order? That’s the freedom you are personally advocating for? I want to be free to order goods without having to upload government-issued ID or otherwise jump through hoops to assuage your panic. I also want to be free to see a suicide book next to a sodium nitrate purchase without an emotionally panicked busy-body deciding that we have to save the children by infringing on the latter freedom. > Do you also want to be free to buy baby formula and not be sure what’s in it, or a car where the seatbelts fail if you weigh over 150lbs? Do you want freedom to see pornographic billboards near the playground? You’re conflating a lot of very different issues here. Can you actually explain how these are related? > The idea that corporations should just be able to do whatever they want is so fucking toxic. Nobody is advocating that here, that I can tell. Furthermore, far more toxicity arises out of nanny-scolds advocating for ever-increasing regulation so that nobody will ever feel unsafe again. If you want to look for the source of policies that stifle children, replace their healthy childhood experiences with institutionalized suffocation, and as a result, have created the most mentally unwell generation (literally) ever — try a mirror.

CPLX 4y ago

Who is we? You order highly lethal lab chemicals from a one click consumer products site you use to restock your kitchen or is this some kind of hypothetical cost you’re worried about incurring here? If this is really your approach to consumer product safety then I suppose you’re consistent, if wrong. I bet it’s not though. I suspect you’re pretty happy with the outcome of a framework where dangerous products are regulated. The freedom argument is specious we don’t regulate commerce with corporate freedom as an overriding value. We mandate everything from child proof packaging to rear view mirrors to alcohol consumption of pilots to competence exams for barbers to labeling for Doritos. I suspect most in this thread are idly arguing from bias rather than reading the facts of Amazon’s behavior here it’s pretty indefensible. Our tech giants are corporations and the things they produce are products. By a few historical accidents (especially section 230) and a shit ton of corporate PR we have been conditioned not to evaluate them as consumer products that can be defective and harmful but we should start.

catiopatio 4y ago
> You order highly lethal lab chemicals from a one click consumer products site Yes, I do. You do too. Your medicine cabinet and cleaning supplies are full of lethal “lab chemicals” that would kill if ingested, or ingested in even mild excess. But this isn’t even a “highly lethal lab chemical”, it’s just sodium nitrate; mined straight from the earth, and has been used as a food preservative for at least a couple centuries. > … you use to restock your kitchen It’s none of your business what we buy these things for, whether it’s to stock our kitchen for meat preservation, or backyard science experiments with our kids. > The freedom argument is specious we don’t regulate commerce with corporate freedom as an overriding value. The freedom you’re attacking out of emotional panic isn’t Amazon’s. They can comply with whatever arbitrary nonsensical “save the children” crap you invent, and compliance will cost a microscopic percentage of their overall revenue. The freedom you’re attacking is mine, and everyone else’s. Take responsibility for yourself and your own children. If you can’t do that, blame yourself, not me.
- CPLX 4y ago
  You want to be free to see a handbook with suicide instructions next to the pure sodium nitrite you order? That’s the freedom you are personally advocating for? You’re not seeing anything about this turn of events that could be improved upon? Do you also want to be free to buy baby formula and not be sure what’s in it, or a car where the seatbelts fail if you weigh over 150lbs? Do you want freedom to see pornographic billboards near the playground? These things aren’t freedom by any recognizable definition. They’re just defective products made by unaccountable corporations. Like Amazon’s recommendation engine in this case. The idea that corporations should just be able to do whatever they want is so fucking toxic. Seeing this attitude pervasive here on the discussion board of the private equity firm that’s advised so much of our modern tech culture sure does explain a lot though.
  - catiopatio 4y ago
    > You want to be free to see a handbook with suicide instructions next to the pure sodium nitrite you order? That’s the freedom you are personally advocating for? I want to be free to order goods without having to upload government-issued ID or otherwise jump through hoops to assuage your panic. I also want to be free to see a suicide book next to a sodium nitrate purchase without an emotionally panicked busy-body deciding that we have to save the children by infringing on the latter freedom. > Do you also want to be free to buy baby formula and not be sure what’s in it, or a car where the seatbelts fail if you weigh over 150lbs? Do you want freedom to see pornographic billboards near the playground? You’re conflating a lot of very different issues here. Can you actually explain how these are related? > The idea that corporations should just be able to do whatever they want is so fucking toxic. Nobody is advocating that here, that I can tell. Furthermore, far more toxicity arises out of nanny-scolds advocating for ever-increasing regulation so that nobody will ever feel unsafe again. If you want to look for the source of policies that stifle children, replace their healthy childhood experiences with institutionalized suffocation, and as a result, have created the most mentally unwell generation (literally) ever — try a mirror.