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"After sharing images circulating on Facebook that carried a fake statement, the perpetrators had devices confiscated and some were fined." I don't even know w

"After sharing images circulating on Facebook that carried a fake statement, the perpetrators had devices confiscated and some were fined." I don't even know what I would do if the government "confiscated" my devices. First, probably freak the fuck out. Then, try desperately to log out of every service I was logged in to? Hope they aren't interested in my nudes? Go crawling to HR and explain that our entire codebase, and probably a couple sensitive keys, are now at some police department until, who knows when? And then go buy a new $1000 phone and $3000 laptop. "Confiscating devices" sounds like such an ordinary, routine thing, but it is so incredibly, profoundly invasive and would upend my life as much as being throw in jail for a week, only it would cost me a lot more. The bar should be ridiculously high for that kind of government intrusion.

DeWilde 4y ago
> I don't even know what I would do if the government "confiscated" my devices. You do something (full disk encryption) before the government confiscates your devices.
- blisterpeanuts 4y ago
  Aren’t iPhones already fully encrypted? Or is that something you have to specially enable?
  - standardUser 4y ago
    All newer MacBooks and Apple and Android phones should come encrypted by default. Not sure about other devices.
- Nebasuke 4y ago
  Maybe if you live in the US (and quite a few other countries), but if you live in the UK, you can get a prison sentence just for not disclosing your encryption keys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_King...
  - DeWilde 4y ago
    Would the defense of "I just changed my password and don't remember it" work?
    - helge9210 4y ago
      Yes. You'll stay in jail until you remember it. /s UK doesn't have a concept of presumption of innocence. So guilty until proved otherwise
- strken 4y ago
  They're still taking all your 2FA devices away. Getting back into your Gmail account when you don't have any devices signed in, you've lost your TOTP, and the cops have your SIM card is a pain. If you've got anything that's only stored locally, well, sucks to be you.
- standardUser 4y ago
  I guess it comes down to how badly the government wants to access the data. Unless they happen to confiscate a device while it's unlocked.
- BowBun 4y ago
  I'm currently of the belief that this doesn't stop them, or they wouldn't so happily image your devices and send you on your way at US borders. Considering we didn't know governments were using and abusing Cellebrite until recently, and didn't know about the 0-days they hoard until recently, I'm going to assume they can decrypt phones/disks until proven otherwise. The government has a _lot_ of resources.
  - fwn 4y ago
    I think it's a good idea to assume that everything might be compromised. This should not stop anyone from working towards encrypting everything. Even if it can be decrypted or avoided it still increases the overall resources needed for surveillance. The actual solution, long term, needs to be a social one. As a society we need to realize the sensitive nature of those devices and find reasonable boundaries for law enforcement.
bee_rider 4y ago
Laws probably need to be updated on this front... a computer nowadays could fulfill some combination of the roles of diary/journal, store of personal records, de-facto proof-of-identity for many services, not to mention main work tool.
AnonCoward42 4y ago
> "Confiscating devices" sounds like such an ordinary, routine thing, but it is so incredibly, profoundly invasive and would upend my life as much as being throw in jail for a week, only it would cost me a lot more. The bar should be ridiculously high for that kind of government intrusion. In Germany it is quite normal nowadays. The legislation for protecting your own home has been weakened over the course of a decade to a point where you have to expect it if you share anything online that is not 100% clean, especially if it goes against current administration. In the article it sounds like they argue that this is to prevent another Nazi Germany, but it sounds a lot more like fashism what they try to achieve here. You can happily spread misinformation and hate about politicians of non-established parties. You might get sued under civil law, but your home is certainly not invaded, you get arrest and your stuff confiscated. Another case that exemplifies this is "Pimmelgate" where a Twitter user said to a Andy Grote (senator of Hamburg at that time iirc) "you are such a dick/cunt"* (Du bist so 1 Pimmel) and found himself in the same situation as the guy in this article. Hate speech legislation is especially stringently interpreted when it comes to higher officials. *: I'd say the harshness of the insult is in between those words. It's slightly more than nothing.
dvngnt_ 4y ago
laughs in full disk encryption, but i get your point

DeWilde 4y ago

> I don't even know what I would do if the government "confiscated" my devices. You do something (full disk encryption) before the government confiscates your devices.

blisterpeanuts 4y ago
Aren’t iPhones already fully encrypted? Or is that something you have to specially enable?
- standardUser 4y ago
  All newer MacBooks and Apple and Android phones should come encrypted by default. Not sure about other devices.
Nebasuke 4y ago
Maybe if you live in the US (and quite a few other countries), but if you live in the UK, you can get a prison sentence just for not disclosing your encryption keys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_King...
- DeWilde 4y ago
  Would the defense of "I just changed my password and don't remember it" work?
  - helge9210 4y ago
    Yes. You'll stay in jail until you remember it. /s UK doesn't have a concept of presumption of innocence. So guilty until proved otherwise
strken 4y ago
They're still taking all your 2FA devices away. Getting back into your Gmail account when you don't have any devices signed in, you've lost your TOTP, and the cops have your SIM card is a pain. If you've got anything that's only stored locally, well, sucks to be you.
standardUser 4y ago
I guess it comes down to how badly the government wants to access the data. Unless they happen to confiscate a device while it's unlocked.
BowBun 4y ago
I'm currently of the belief that this doesn't stop them, or they wouldn't so happily image your devices and send you on your way at US borders. Considering we didn't know governments were using and abusing Cellebrite until recently, and didn't know about the 0-days they hoard until recently, I'm going to assume they can decrypt phones/disks until proven otherwise. The government has a _lot_ of resources.
- fwn 4y ago
  I think it's a good idea to assume that everything might be compromised. This should not stop anyone from working towards encrypting everything. Even if it can be decrypted or avoided it still increases the overall resources needed for surveillance. The actual solution, long term, needs to be a social one. As a society we need to realize the sensitive nature of those devices and find reasonable boundaries for law enforcement.

bee_rider 4y ago

Laws probably need to be updated on this front... a computer nowadays could fulfill some combination of the roles of diary/journal, store of personal records, de-facto proof-of-identity for many services, not to mention main work tool.

AnonCoward42 4y ago

> "Confiscating devices" sounds like such an ordinary, routine thing, but it is so incredibly, profoundly invasive and would upend my life as much as being throw in jail for a week, only it would cost me a lot more. The bar should be ridiculously high for that kind of government intrusion. In Germany it is quite normal nowadays. The legislation for protecting your own home has been weakened over the course of a decade to a point where you have to expect it if you share anything online that is not 100% clean, especially if it goes against current administration. In the article it sounds like they argue that this is to prevent another Nazi Germany, but it sounds a lot more like fashism what they try to achieve here. You can happily spread misinformation and hate about politicians of non-established parties. You might get sued under civil law, but your home is certainly not invaded, you get arrest and your stuff confiscated. Another case that exemplifies this is "Pimmelgate" where a Twitter user said to a Andy Grote (senator of Hamburg at that time iirc) "you are such a dick/cunt"* (Du bist so 1 Pimmel) and found himself in the same situation as the guy in this article. Hate speech legislation is especially stringently interpreted when it comes to higher officials. *: I'd say the harshness of the insult is in between those words. It's slightly more than nothing.

dvngnt_ 4y ago

laughs in full disk encryption, but i get your point