5 ms·

It seems there is some confusion of what this page is about or why it might be relevant. This is not about an end-user product to run desktop virtualisation, bu

It seems there is some confusion of what this page is about or why it might be relevant. This is not about an end-user product to run desktop virtualisation, but it is a page for developers in the Apple ecosystem to programmatically make use of OS-native virtualisation to create virtual machines with graphics output. The value in this is not as much that "it is possible" because there are plenty of implementations of this possibility, but it's more about the vendor-native support, vendor-native documentation and examples and the signal it gives about the current state of support. In the wild, an end-user (that includes developers, it's not a derogatory term, it simply mens the person the product is intended to be used by) might see applications like UTM, Veertu, Q and others use this under the hood. VirtualBox doesn't work on ARM by the way, they only release for x86(_64). So it can only virtualise, and only on x86 hosts for x86 guests.

Maursault 4y ago
> VirtualBox doesn't work on ARM by the way, they only release for x86(_64). Because VirtualBox is not a CPU emulator, unlike QEMU, MAME/MESS, and other emulators. Virtualization software such as Fusion and Parallels run VMs of operating systems that match the architecture of the host OS. Intel VMs like those in VirtualBox will not run on Apple Silicon, and Apple Silicon VMs won't run on Intel. The CPU instruction sets are not compatible, nor can Rosetta 2 solve this. But an OS is arguably a tool used to run architecture compatible software, and much software will compile on different architecture platforms, so while it may not be possible to run VirtualBox on Apple Silicon, it may be possible to recompile whatever software is running on the virtual OS to native Apple Silicon. This is true for 10s of thousands of ports managed by MacPorts and much of the code available on GitHub, but it probably isn't true for proprietary software where the source code is unavailable.
- Teknoman117 4y ago
  Just want to point out that QEMU can use your CPU's hardware virtualization extensions for VMs of the same architecture as your host, it's not exclusively an emulator.
- oneplane 4y ago
  I added some clarification. There is no VirtualBox on ARM platform. So you can't virtualise ARM on ARM with VirtualBox, because they don't make ARM compatible releases. But both VMWare and Parallels for example have made ARM on ARM virtualisation releases of their existing x86 on x86 products. So if you need something like a sandbox or IR workstation, you can have plenty of virtual environments, just not with VirtualBox as supporting software and type 2 hypervisor.
  - Maursault 4y ago
    > But both VMWare and Parallels for example have made ARM on ARM virtualisation releases of their existing x86 on x86 products. Right, but the VMs themselves are not cross platform. ARM Linux won't work in Intel VMWare, and x86 Linux won't work in ARM VMWare. I am sure you knew, or course, but as you pointed out there is confusion below about VirtualBox working on Apple Silicon.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > ARM Linux won't work in Intel VMWare Newsflash: program for one processor's instruction set won't work on another processor.
      - coldtea 4y ago
        If only it was that clear cut. As you well know, with Rosetta and other technologies (heck, also Wine) that's just not true. With Rosetta you can take any (or most) Mac programs compiled for x86 and just run them on M1 ARM. Support gets even deeper, as with the Rosetta update you will be able to even run x86 binaries inside a hosted ARM virtual machine (!). So it makes sense for people to be confused as to what's actually supported, and to add the clarification when this is not the case, because some might also expect this could be the case with say Virtualbox.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        > Well, with Rossetta and other technologies (heck, also Wine) that's just not true. Rosetta takes an instruction stream from another processor and translates it to an instruction stream for another processor - that's exactly what I mean - it needs translation.
- slickrick216 4y ago
  https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/7.0.0_BETA3/VirtualBox-7.0.0_BETA3-153829-macOSAArch64.dmg https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/7.0.0_BETA3/Virtu... ;)
  - Sirened 4y ago
    For those not in tune with virtualbox, this beta lets you run 32-bit x86 guests on aarch64 macOS
    - wila 4y ago
      Sadly it does not appear to work that well.. Quote: There has been no port to M1/M2. All there has been is early work that does nothing useful but somehow escaped the stables. You can safely forget all about it for now. [0] https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=106919 https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=106919
      - slickrick216 4y ago
        Yeah it’s a shame still looks promising.

Maursault 4y ago

> VirtualBox doesn't work on ARM by the way, they only release for x86(_64). Because VirtualBox is not a CPU emulator, unlike QEMU, MAME/MESS, and other emulators. Virtualization software such as Fusion and Parallels run VMs of operating systems that match the architecture of the host OS. Intel VMs like those in VirtualBox will not run on Apple Silicon, and Apple Silicon VMs won't run on Intel. The CPU instruction sets are not compatible, nor can Rosetta 2 solve this. But an OS is arguably a tool used to run architecture compatible software, and much software will compile on different architecture platforms, so while it may not be possible to run VirtualBox on Apple Silicon, it may be possible to recompile whatever software is running on the virtual OS to native Apple Silicon. This is true for 10s of thousands of ports managed by MacPorts and much of the code available on GitHub, but it probably isn't true for proprietary software where the source code is unavailable.

Teknoman117 4y ago
Just want to point out that QEMU can use your CPU's hardware virtualization extensions for VMs of the same architecture as your host, it's not exclusively an emulator.
oneplane 4y ago
I added some clarification. There is no VirtualBox on ARM platform. So you can't virtualise ARM on ARM with VirtualBox, because they don't make ARM compatible releases. But both VMWare and Parallels for example have made ARM on ARM virtualisation releases of their existing x86 on x86 products. So if you need something like a sandbox or IR workstation, you can have plenty of virtual environments, just not with VirtualBox as supporting software and type 2 hypervisor.
- Maursault 4y ago
  > But both VMWare and Parallels for example have made ARM on ARM virtualisation releases of their existing x86 on x86 products. Right, but the VMs themselves are not cross platform. ARM Linux won't work in Intel VMWare, and x86 Linux won't work in ARM VMWare. I am sure you knew, or course, but as you pointed out there is confusion below about VirtualBox working on Apple Silicon.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > ARM Linux won't work in Intel VMWare Newsflash: program for one processor's instruction set won't work on another processor.
    - coldtea 4y ago
      If only it was that clear cut. As you well know, with Rosetta and other technologies (heck, also Wine) that's just not true. With Rosetta you can take any (or most) Mac programs compiled for x86 and just run them on M1 ARM. Support gets even deeper, as with the Rosetta update you will be able to even run x86 binaries inside a hosted ARM virtual machine (!). So it makes sense for people to be confused as to what's actually supported, and to add the clarification when this is not the case, because some might also expect this could be the case with say Virtualbox.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        > Well, with Rossetta and other technologies (heck, also Wine) that's just not true. Rosetta takes an instruction stream from another processor and translates it to an instruction stream for another processor - that's exactly what I mean - it needs translation.
slickrick216 4y ago
https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/7.0.0_BETA3/VirtualBox-7.0.0_BETA3-153829-macOSAArch64.dmg https://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/7.0.0_BETA3/Virtu... ;)
- Sirened 4y ago
  For those not in tune with virtualbox, this beta lets you run 32-bit x86 guests on aarch64 macOS
  - wila 4y ago
    Sadly it does not appear to work that well.. Quote: There has been no port to M1/M2. All there has been is early work that does nothing useful but somehow escaped the stables. You can safely forget all about it for now. [0] https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=106919 https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=106919
    - slickrick216 4y ago
      Yeah it’s a shame still looks promising.