4 ms·

Recommending a book that instructs you how to use these products in combination for the purpose of suicide is wrong. I’d argue selling and profiting from that k

Recommending a book that instructs you how to use these products in combination for the purpose of suicide is wrong. I’d argue selling and profiting from that kind of information is wrong, too. No one’s saying Amazon can’t sell these chemicals. But it’s dubious at best to defend selling the info, and it’s downright evil to recommend it. Yes, it’s their algorithm. But they tweak it all the time to catch issues like this. If they recommended Mein Kampf and white robes when you ordered rope, surely we’d all agree that would be wrong, even though those individual items are defendable. Recommending them in combination would be evil. Likewise, recommending guns and bullets alongside a book about mass shootings would be evil. I don’t see how this is a controversial position.

bryanrasmussen 4y ago
I would think this information comes close to encouragement to suicide which is against the law in a lot of jurisdictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation
- giantg2 4y ago
  Close, maybe. Prosecutable, unlikely given the algorithm doesn't understand what is being recommended (products, not an idea) an would not meet mens rea.
giantg2 4y ago
It can't be evil. The algorithm just recommends products without understanding their intent. The real question shouldn't be around the algorithm, but rather around the suicide book being banned. Or even around unauthorized account creation/access or payment.
Manu40 4y ago
Except the algorithm is just working off the data it has available, and the data it has collected; and that data tells it that people who buy that list of ingredients have also bought that booklet in the past. So it suggests that booklet to others as well, since they have the same list of ingredients in their cart. The algorithm is not evil, and Amazon itself is not either, provided they do something to try to fix the problem. But the problem is in how algorithms themselves operate. It's just taking known info and applying it to current situation. The only actual, proper, and relatively easy by comparison solution to all of this is to just make it so people have no want or reason to commit suicide, or any other 'evil' acts that might be suggested by a foolish algorithm. Banning things has never worked. Just look at all those super successful wars on drugs, alcohol, etc. Never, worked. Ever. The true evil, in my opinion, is the attempt to kid-safe the world to the point where it removes all potential for joy and happiness. That leads to suicide by the first groups who commit it, which produces data for our A.I driven machines, which leads to algorithms happily suggesting the perfect thing for it. I would like to add finally, that just because you don't see how your or any one elses opinion is or is not controversial, does not make it so. Calling opinion controversial based upon opinion itself as well, is just argumentation. Which should be fine in a logical world. But we do not live in a logical world, which is why people are preferring to opt-out of it. And that's my opinion on the matter. Algorithms just happily oblige the user.
31337Logic 4y ago
It's "wrong" only if you believe that taking one's own life is wrong. This is a deep, long-standing issue that has valid points on both sides. Not so black and white. I can think of at least one good use case: where someone with a terminal disease (or otherwise poor quality of life, through no control of their own). Then, maybe, peacefully taking one's own life to reduce their own suffering, not to mention the suffering of their loved ones, might actually be the "right" choice. Hard to generalize this as a universal rule since context matters so much here.
- CPLX 4y ago
  I believe teenagers killing themselves is bad and wrong and we should try to stop it. If your values diverge from that great for you I guess but I think my values on this are more consistent with a healthy society and approach to regulating corporate behavior.

bryanrasmussen 4y ago

I would think this information comes close to encouragement to suicide which is against the law in a lot of jurisdictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_legislation

giantg2 4y ago
Close, maybe. Prosecutable, unlikely given the algorithm doesn't understand what is being recommended (products, not an idea) an would not meet mens rea.

giantg2 4y ago

It can't be evil. The algorithm just recommends products without understanding their intent. The real question shouldn't be around the algorithm, but rather around the suicide book being banned. Or even around unauthorized account creation/access or payment.

Manu40 4y ago

Except the algorithm is just working off the data it has available, and the data it has collected; and that data tells it that people who buy that list of ingredients have also bought that booklet in the past. So it suggests that booklet to others as well, since they have the same list of ingredients in their cart. The algorithm is not evil, and Amazon itself is not either, provided they do something to try to fix the problem. But the problem is in how algorithms themselves operate. It's just taking known info and applying it to current situation. The only actual, proper, and relatively easy by comparison solution to all of this is to just make it so people have no want or reason to commit suicide, or any other 'evil' acts that might be suggested by a foolish algorithm. Banning things has never worked. Just look at all those super successful wars on drugs, alcohol, etc. Never, worked. Ever. The true evil, in my opinion, is the attempt to kid-safe the world to the point where it removes all potential for joy and happiness. That leads to suicide by the first groups who commit it, which produces data for our A.I driven machines, which leads to algorithms happily suggesting the perfect thing for it. I would like to add finally, that just because you don't see how your or any one elses opinion is or is not controversial, does not make it so. Calling opinion controversial based upon opinion itself as well, is just argumentation. Which should be fine in a logical world. But we do not live in a logical world, which is why people are preferring to opt-out of it. And that's my opinion on the matter. Algorithms just happily oblige the user.

31337Logic 4y ago

It's "wrong" only if you believe that taking one's own life is wrong. This is a deep, long-standing issue that has valid points on both sides. Not so black and white. I can think of at least one good use case: where someone with a terminal disease (or otherwise poor quality of life, through no control of their own). Then, maybe, peacefully taking one's own life to reduce their own suffering, not to mention the suffering of their loved ones, might actually be the "right" choice. Hard to generalize this as a universal rule since context matters so much here.

CPLX 4y ago
I believe teenagers killing themselves is bad and wrong and we should try to stop it. If your values diverge from that great for you I guess but I think my values on this are more consistent with a healthy society and approach to regulating corporate behavior.