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> The point here is that someone shouldn't be able to decide, in the course of 5 seconds, to engage in a permanent decision like this. Is it a right or not? >

> The point here is that someone shouldn't be able to decide, in the course of 5 seconds, to engage in a permanent decision like this. Is it a right or not? > we should be pretty sure In what sense is it a right if someone else has to agree to it?

stale2002 4y ago
So, you see zero problem with someone spending 5 seconds to think about a decision and then taking a permanent decision like that? Really? Or are you just hyper focusing on an irrelevant dictionary definition of the single word "right", that nobody else was using? That is why I said you were being obtuse. You focusing on a single word is missing the point, and I don't know why you would focus on the word like that.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > Really? Yeah really. What right should I have to tell them to do something or not do something with their own body and life?
  - stale2002 4y ago
    Well then you basically do not care about suicidal people. Because, if you had ever spoken to anyone who has felt suicidal, you will see that most of them admit that they have had couple second lapses in judgement and are extremely glad that they did not have a 5 second suicide button that they could press. So, me, being someone who actually cares about these people, and who has spoken to them, know that most people who are suicidal do not want to be given this option. You would know this if you had ever spoken to someone in your life, ever, who has had depressive or suicidal thoughts.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > You would know this if you had ever spoken to someone in your life, ever, who has had depressive or suicidal thoughts. Actually I'm a trustee of a registered charity that provides support to people with a wide range of serious welfare and mental health issues and have dealt with them in practice multiple times, providing a great deal of support from my own personal time to people struggling. I'm sorry that you made an incorrect assumption. I'm afraid that I find it's pretty typical among people who think they should have a right to control others.
      - deleted 4y ago
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      - deleted 4y ago
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        chrisseaton 4y ago
        This isn't the gotcha you think it is. You can just accept that you were wrong about my experience with the issue, if you want to. That's actually the major issue in this area - people assuming things, and assuming that their experience translates to others.
    - quantum_magpie 4y ago
      Oh, fuck off. I am one of those people, I have been for the last 15 years. And I believe I have the right to go peacefully when I decide to. That others force me to suffer because they might be sad is incredibly selfish of them. So take your condescending shit somewhere where you have any clue in what you're talking about.
      - stale2002 4y ago
        > I am one of those people Do you have any friends who have attempted suicide, failed, and now regret the attempt immensely? Do you wish they had succeeded in their suicide attempt? I am talking about a situation where they regret the decision, are alive now, and are glad that they are alive, and that the attempt failed. For that situation, do you think they should have died, even though now they admit that it was a mistake and are glad that they didn't go through with it? > I have been for the last 15 years This wasn't about a situation where someone has made a decision, and been certain of it for years. Instead, if you read the conversation, it was about if someone should be able to make a quick, decision, within literally 5 seconds. Do you understand how giving someone a decision, in this short a period of time, is extremely different than if someone has thought about the situation for a long time, and is very certain?
mynameisvlad 4y ago
Do you not understand that suicide affects everyone around the person? It's an incredibly selfish decision and definitely should be done with more than 5 seconds of thought. As the other person said, stop being obtuse.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > It's an incredibly selfish decision People should have a right to be as selfish as they want with their own bodies. You don't owe anyone else a responsibility to live.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    Seriously, stop being obtuse. Suicide is a serious decision with serious consequences. It should be treated as such, not as some flimsy debate topic about bodily autonomy. Have some empathy and tact when discussing such serious topics.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > Seriously, stop being obtuse I get that you don't agree with me. But having a different opinion doesn't make me obtuse. That's just slinging around an insult.
      - mynameisvlad 4y ago
        You are plainly ignoring the seriousness of the decision and treating it like any other bodily autonomy discussion. Multiple people have told you about how people with suicidal ideation operate and how serious this topic is. Multiple times. You choosing to ignore it all is, plain and simple, obtuse. Period. If you don't want to be called obtuse, don't be obtuse.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        You don't think it's a clear-cut right - I get that. You think it's a right, subject to someone else's opinion. I do think it's clear-cut right.

stale2002 4y ago

So, you see zero problem with someone spending 5 seconds to think about a decision and then taking a permanent decision like that? Really? Or are you just hyper focusing on an irrelevant dictionary definition of the single word "right", that nobody else was using? That is why I said you were being obtuse. You focusing on a single word is missing the point, and I don't know why you would focus on the word like that.

chrisseaton 4y ago
> Really? Yeah really. What right should I have to tell them to do something or not do something with their own body and life?
- stale2002 4y ago
  Well then you basically do not care about suicidal people. Because, if you had ever spoken to anyone who has felt suicidal, you will see that most of them admit that they have had couple second lapses in judgement and are extremely glad that they did not have a 5 second suicide button that they could press. So, me, being someone who actually cares about these people, and who has spoken to them, know that most people who are suicidal do not want to be given this option. You would know this if you had ever spoken to someone in your life, ever, who has had depressive or suicidal thoughts.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > You would know this if you had ever spoken to someone in your life, ever, who has had depressive or suicidal thoughts. Actually I'm a trustee of a registered charity that provides support to people with a wide range of serious welfare and mental health issues and have dealt with them in practice multiple times, providing a great deal of support from my own personal time to people struggling. I'm sorry that you made an incorrect assumption. I'm afraid that I find it's pretty typical among people who think they should have a right to control others.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        This isn't the gotcha you think it is. You can just accept that you were wrong about my experience with the issue, if you want to. That's actually the major issue in this area - people assuming things, and assuming that their experience translates to others.
  - quantum_magpie 4y ago
    Oh, fuck off. I am one of those people, I have been for the last 15 years. And I believe I have the right to go peacefully when I decide to. That others force me to suffer because they might be sad is incredibly selfish of them. So take your condescending shit somewhere where you have any clue in what you're talking about.
    - stale2002 4y ago
      > I am one of those people Do you have any friends who have attempted suicide, failed, and now regret the attempt immensely? Do you wish they had succeeded in their suicide attempt? I am talking about a situation where they regret the decision, are alive now, and are glad that they are alive, and that the attempt failed. For that situation, do you think they should have died, even though now they admit that it was a mistake and are glad that they didn't go through with it? > I have been for the last 15 years This wasn't about a situation where someone has made a decision, and been certain of it for years. Instead, if you read the conversation, it was about if someone should be able to make a quick, decision, within literally 5 seconds. Do you understand how giving someone a decision, in this short a period of time, is extremely different than if someone has thought about the situation for a long time, and is very certain?

mynameisvlad 4y ago

Do you not understand that suicide affects everyone around the person? It's an incredibly selfish decision and definitely should be done with more than 5 seconds of thought. As the other person said, stop being obtuse.

chrisseaton 4y ago
> It's an incredibly selfish decision People should have a right to be as selfish as they want with their own bodies. You don't owe anyone else a responsibility to live.
- mynameisvlad 4y ago
  Seriously, stop being obtuse. Suicide is a serious decision with serious consequences. It should be treated as such, not as some flimsy debate topic about bodily autonomy. Have some empathy and tact when discussing such serious topics.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > Seriously, stop being obtuse I get that you don't agree with me. But having a different opinion doesn't make me obtuse. That's just slinging around an insult.
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      You are plainly ignoring the seriousness of the decision and treating it like any other bodily autonomy discussion. Multiple people have told you about how people with suicidal ideation operate and how serious this topic is. Multiple times. You choosing to ignore it all is, plain and simple, obtuse. Period. If you don't want to be called obtuse, don't be obtuse.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        You don't think it's a clear-cut right - I get that. You think it's a right, subject to someone else's opinion. I do think it's clear-cut right.