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I believe in the right to suicide, and I also think transaction costs matter. What if we had 25-cent suicide booths a la Futurama on every street corner? Someti

by spir 4y ago

I believe in the right to suicide, and I also think transaction costs matter. What if we had 25-cent suicide booths a la Futurama on every street corner? Sometimes people are going through hard times, and it needs to be easier to seek help and connect with other humans who care than it is to off yourself.

chrisseaton 4y ago
If you believe in a right to suicide, don't you believe in a right to making it as low cost and accessible as possible? If you have to afford it and you have to get past a gatekeeper it doesn't seem much of a right.
- stale2002 4y ago
  You are being obtuse. The point here is that someone shouldn't be able to decide, in the course of 5 seconds, to engage in a permanent decision like this. The reason being, that people make mistakes in the course of 5 seconds, that they regret. So, instead of that, we should be pretty sure before allowing people to make such permanent decision. Such as, for example, by having a doctor talk to the person. This is why the OP mentioned the TV show Futurama. Because in the comedy TV show, people could decide in 5 seconds to do that. And the reason why it was in a comedy TV show, is because that is bad, and absurd, and that's why it is funny.
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > The point here is that someone shouldn't be able to decide, in the course of 5 seconds, to engage in a permanent decision like this. Is it a right or not? > we should be pretty sure In what sense is it a right if someone else has to agree to it?
    - stale2002 4y ago
      So, you see zero problem with someone spending 5 seconds to think about a decision and then taking a permanent decision like that? Really? Or are you just hyper focusing on an irrelevant dictionary definition of the single word "right", that nobody else was using? That is why I said you were being obtuse. You focusing on a single word is missing the point, and I don't know why you would focus on the word like that.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        > Really? Yeah really. What right should I have to tell them to do something or not do something with their own body and life?
        stale2002 4y ago
        Well then you basically do not care about suicidal people. Because, if you had ever spoken to anyone who has felt suicidal, you will see that most of them admit that they have had couple second lapses in judgement and are extremely glad that they did not have a 5 second suicide button that they could press. So, me, being someone who actually cares about these people, and who has spoken to them, know that most people who are suicidal do not want to be given this option. You would know this if you had ever spoken to someone in your life, ever, who has had depressive or suicidal thoughts.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        > You would know this if you had ever spoken to someone in your life, ever, who has had depressive or suicidal thoughts. Actually I'm a trustee of a registered charity that provides support to people with a wide range of serious welfare and mental health issues and have dealt with them in practice multiple times, providing a great deal of support from my own personal time to people struggling. I'm sorry that you made an incorrect assumption. I'm afraid that I find it's pretty typical among people who think they should have a right to control others.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        This isn't the gotcha you think it is. You can just accept that you were wrong about my experience with the issue, if you want to. That's actually the major issue in this area - people assuming things, and assuming that their experience translates to others.
    - mynameisvlad 4y ago
      Do you not understand that suicide affects everyone around the person? It's an incredibly selfish decision and definitely should be done with more than 5 seconds of thought. As the other person said, stop being obtuse.
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        > It's an incredibly selfish decision People should have a right to be as selfish as they want with their own bodies. You don't owe anyone else a responsibility to live.
        mynameisvlad 4y ago
        Seriously, stop being obtuse. Suicide is a serious decision with serious consequences. It should be treated as such, not as some flimsy debate topic about bodily autonomy. Have some empathy and tact when discussing such serious topics.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        > Seriously, stop being obtuse I get that you don't agree with me. But having a different opinion doesn't make me obtuse. That's just slinging around an insult.
        mynameisvlad 4y ago
        You are plainly ignoring the seriousness of the decision and treating it like any other bodily autonomy discussion. Multiple people have told you about how people with suicidal ideation operate and how serious this topic is. Multiple times. You choosing to ignore it all is, plain and simple, obtuse. Period. If you don't want to be called obtuse, don't be obtuse.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        You don't think it's a clear-cut right - I get that. You think it's a right, subject to someone else's opinion. I do think it's clear-cut right.
- deleted 4y ago
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- tsimionescu 4y ago
  No, because suicide is also an extremely dangerous option to other groups of people - some mental illnesses cause suicidal ideation, and people who suffer from them are often terrified in their moments of clarity of the possibility that they may actually do it in their moments of "insanity". The vast majority of people who attempt suicide actually regret it afterwards, and have no deep desire to die. Making it hard to actually kill yourself is an extremely important safety net for these people, who outnumber the terminally ill who actually wish to die by a large margin. Not to mention, people can be compelled to attempt suicide by social pressure, either in bullying or by family members who view them as a burden. Having to go through a neutral third party who can help make sure you actually deeply desire this step is critical to protect you from others.

by spir 4y ago

chrisseaton 4y ago

If you believe in a right to suicide, don't you believe in a right to making it as low cost and accessible as possible? If you have to afford it and you have to get past a gatekeeper it doesn't seem much of a right.

stale2002 4y ago
You are being obtuse. The point here is that someone shouldn't be able to decide, in the course of 5 seconds, to engage in a permanent decision like this. The reason being, that people make mistakes in the course of 5 seconds, that they regret. So, instead of that, we should be pretty sure before allowing people to make such permanent decision. Such as, for example, by having a doctor talk to the person. This is why the OP mentioned the TV show Futurama. Because in the comedy TV show, people could decide in 5 seconds to do that. And the reason why it was in a comedy TV show, is because that is bad, and absurd, and that's why it is funny.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > The point here is that someone shouldn't be able to decide, in the course of 5 seconds, to engage in a permanent decision like this. Is it a right or not? > we should be pretty sure In what sense is it a right if someone else has to agree to it?
  - stale2002 4y ago
    So, you see zero problem with someone spending 5 seconds to think about a decision and then taking a permanent decision like that? Really? Or are you just hyper focusing on an irrelevant dictionary definition of the single word "right", that nobody else was using? That is why I said you were being obtuse. You focusing on a single word is missing the point, and I don't know why you would focus on the word like that.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > Really? Yeah really. What right should I have to tell them to do something or not do something with their own body and life?
      - stale2002 4y ago
        Well then you basically do not care about suicidal people. Because, if you had ever spoken to anyone who has felt suicidal, you will see that most of them admit that they have had couple second lapses in judgement and are extremely glad that they did not have a 5 second suicide button that they could press. So, me, being someone who actually cares about these people, and who has spoken to them, know that most people who are suicidal do not want to be given this option. You would know this if you had ever spoken to someone in your life, ever, who has had depressive or suicidal thoughts.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        > You would know this if you had ever spoken to someone in your life, ever, who has had depressive or suicidal thoughts. Actually I'm a trustee of a registered charity that provides support to people with a wide range of serious welfare and mental health issues and have dealt with them in practice multiple times, providing a great deal of support from my own personal time to people struggling. I'm sorry that you made an incorrect assumption. I'm afraid that I find it's pretty typical among people who think they should have a right to control others.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        This isn't the gotcha you think it is. You can just accept that you were wrong about my experience with the issue, if you want to. That's actually the major issue in this area - people assuming things, and assuming that their experience translates to others.
  - mynameisvlad 4y ago
    Do you not understand that suicide affects everyone around the person? It's an incredibly selfish decision and definitely should be done with more than 5 seconds of thought. As the other person said, stop being obtuse.
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > It's an incredibly selfish decision People should have a right to be as selfish as they want with their own bodies. You don't owe anyone else a responsibility to live.
      - mynameisvlad 4y ago
        Seriously, stop being obtuse. Suicide is a serious decision with serious consequences. It should be treated as such, not as some flimsy debate topic about bodily autonomy. Have some empathy and tact when discussing such serious topics.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        > Seriously, stop being obtuse I get that you don't agree with me. But having a different opinion doesn't make me obtuse. That's just slinging around an insult.
        mynameisvlad 4y ago
        You are plainly ignoring the seriousness of the decision and treating it like any other bodily autonomy discussion. Multiple people have told you about how people with suicidal ideation operate and how serious this topic is. Multiple times. You choosing to ignore it all is, plain and simple, obtuse. Period. If you don't want to be called obtuse, don't be obtuse.
        chrisseaton 4y ago
        You don't think it's a clear-cut right - I get that. You think it's a right, subject to someone else's opinion. I do think it's clear-cut right.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tsimionescu 4y ago
No, because suicide is also an extremely dangerous option to other groups of people - some mental illnesses cause suicidal ideation, and people who suffer from them are often terrified in their moments of clarity of the possibility that they may actually do it in their moments of "insanity". The vast majority of people who attempt suicide actually regret it afterwards, and have no deep desire to die. Making it hard to actually kill yourself is an extremely important safety net for these people, who outnumber the terminally ill who actually wish to die by a large margin. Not to mention, people can be compelled to attempt suicide by social pressure, either in bullying or by family members who view them as a burden. Having to go through a neutral third party who can help make sure you actually deeply desire this step is critical to protect you from others.