5 ms·

Let's ban ropes because people might use it to hang themselves.

Someone1234 4y ago
Or more to the point, ropes are fine, books on tying knots are fine, but if you recommend them both together it is a "suicide kit."
- adamdusty 4y ago
  Sure except the book is actually how to hang yourself.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    And the ripe is pre-tied (this concentration isn't used for food preservation)
    - hooverd 4y ago
      High concentration products are nice because you can dilute them as needed without having to keep a ton on hand.
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
        They also are high concentration hydrogen peroxide that will eat ones arm off. We intentionally don't sell it to the general public at that concentration for safety reasons. It seems that the benefits outweigh the costs in my example and with thebtopic at hand. A bit more convenience for some is not worth the preventable death of others.
        Ekaros 4y ago
        I'm kinda torn should Amazon be selling high-purity dangerous chemicals or not. On other hand it makes life easy, but on other maybe somethings should have some control in place. That being specialist store who might look at order and give some customer support.
        moistly 4y ago
        > We intentionally don't sell it to the general public at that concentration for safety reasons We don’t? Then please explain how I have a bottle of 30% H2O2 sitting on my paints & solvents shelf in the garage. I bought it at my local farm & feed shop. No ID, licence, or even proof of farm ownership required. Shit is scary af, but I gotta say it does on hell of a job at cleaning mold and mildew out of my window frames.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        Exactly my point. Your local farm and feed ship is not a local pharmacy or grocery store. It's a specialty store.
        moistly 4y ago
        It’s a store that is open to the general public. You claimed that stores don’t sell it to the general public. Obviously they do, because I walked in off the street and bought it.
        catiopatio 4y ago
        > A bit more convenience for some is not worth the preventable death of others. Why not? Why should I be inconvenienced because a rounding-error’s worth of people made the choice, of their own free will, to misuse a product to harm themselves? This didn’t happen accidentally. It’s not some kind of attractive nuisance.
        hrbf 4y ago
        > Why should I be inconvenienced because a rounding-error’s worth of people made the choice, of their own free will, to misuse a product to harm themselves? I guess I’m not surprised that if self-obsessed people lacking nuance and empathy grow in number everywhere that they are also present on HN. Just look at the wording. I’ve noticed them more frequently as of late, in threads regarding war, death and suffering. Furthermore, to claim a severely depressed teenager is a fully-formed person doing something “of their own free will” betrays fundamental ignorance regarding what depression is, as well as how teenagers function.
        fastball 4y ago
        > Insert Benjamin Franklin quote about sacrificing liberty for safety here.
        hrbf 4y ago
        So providing an effective means of protecting depressed non-adults from the frictionless purchase of above-laboratory strength chemicals to potentially kill themselves by as trivial a measure as verifying age on delivery is somehow infringing on your liberty. Got it.
        catiopatio 4y ago
        Yes, it very clearly is, and the fact that you think age verification on delivery is “trivial” is alarming and depressing.
        4y ago
        adrianN 4y ago
        I bought a kilogram of pure NaOH from Amazon to make soap with no questions asked. That will also eat my arm off. We don't sell peroxides because they can be used to make explosives.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        Can't soap making supplies also be used to make explosives? I learned that in Fight Club.
  - fastball 4y ago
    Which "how to kill yourself with Sodium Nitrate" book is Amazon selling?
    - some_random 4y ago
      Per the complaint[1], it's "The Peaceful Pill" by Dr. Philip Nitschke [1] 85, https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/McCarthy-et-al-v-Amazon-Complaint.pdf https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/McCar...
- hooverd 4y ago
  That particular combination seems likely to be a sex thing.
  - Someone1234 4y ago
    And then they'd sue Amazon for "promoting sex kits to children." This type of lawsuit/logic/reporting is an absolute field day, you just have to come up with the clickbait "[frequently purchased together items] kit promoted TO CHILDREN."
    - atahanacar 4y ago
      I'm very sick and tired of the "What about the children?" mentality. The same excuse is used worldwide for censorship of movies and games, banning "dangerous" products, making anti-LGBT laws because "gay propaganda is making our kids gay", attacking couples because they kissed in public... A child is their parents'/caretakers' responsibility. I shouldn't have to give away my freedoms just because of some negligent parents.
imglorp 4y ago
A closer metaphor might be banning those magnetic bead sculptures because a child might swallow the beads. They were banned for anyone to buy not just children. https://gizmodo.com/buckyballs-magnets-have-been-banned-by-the-feds-update-5929064 https://gizmodo.com/buckyballs-magnets-have-been-banned-by-t...
- bombcar 4y ago
  You can probably get basically the same thing from McMaster-Carr: https://www.mcmaster.com/magnet-ball/shape~ball/neodymium-magnets-7/ https://www.mcmaster.com/magnet-ball/shape~ball/neodymium-ma...
- cypress66 4y ago
  I disagree. That's a toy that kids might choke on. Kids aren't going to randomly buy sodium nitrate and accidentally eat it.
- krisoft 4y ago
  You can still buy spherical neodynium magnets if you want to. They are just not sold as toys. Also even the ban on the toy has been overturned: https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/a24110/buckyballs-legal-us-2016/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/a24110/buckyballs-l...
iancmceachern 4y ago
Or lawn darts, or those old time open fans that you can stick your hands in (or more often kids), or x-ray radiation based shoe sizing machines, or asbestos tiles. As stated in other comments, this is a concentration that's not used for anything else. The food preservative is a different concentration. A better analogy would be to ban ropes that are pre-tied into noises and cannot be untied, so they can only be used for hanging. Yep, I agree, those should be banned too.
- cypress66 4y ago
  You can go to Sigma Aldrich website and buy tens of thousands of other chemicals as deadly or deadlier. Also I disagree that the concentration is not used for anything else.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    Yes, but that's not amazon, it's not a general store, it's a chemical supplier. The issue here is ease of access and direction (the instructions on how to do it), not the fact that these things exist. It's like hydrogen peroxide. You can go to a chemical supplier and buy high concentration stuff that will eat your arm off. They don't sell that at the grocery store, because it'd be dangerous. The high concentration stuff is still available to those who need it, but it's not so easy to get and readily available that it causes preventable deaths.
    - catiopatio 4y ago
      They sell bleach and ammonia-based cleaning products at the grocery store, and those will eat your lungs out if you mix them. They sell dry ice, and that’ll give you frostbite in seconds if you’re stupid. They sell extra-strength Tylenol, and that’ll destroy your liver if you just take 10-20 of them. They don’t sell concentrated hydrogen peroxide at the grocery store because nobody is asking and there’s not a market for it — not because it’s dangerous.
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
derbOac 4y ago
Seriously... I understand the concerns here but I'm so disturbed by some of the comments, like the idea that "teenagers would almost certainly not be interested in learning how to cure meats." Statements like that make a lot of prejudicial assumptions. I'm so tired of kneejerk reactions that X is involved in some tragic events so we should ban them, as opposed to looking deeper into the real reasons things are happening. It's much easier to blame Amazon (who I do not have positive feelings about) for selling sodium nitrate than it is to deal with the socioeconomic and environmental circumstances leading to someone wanting to kill themselves. Pills and purchasing restrictions have become the "let them eat cake" of the 21st century.

Or more to the point, ropes are fine, books on tying knots are fine, but if you recommend them both together it is a "suicide kit."

adamdusty 4y ago
Sure except the book is actually how to hang yourself.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  And the ripe is pre-tied (this concentration isn't used for food preservation)
  - hooverd 4y ago
    High concentration products are nice because you can dilute them as needed without having to keep a ton on hand.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      They also are high concentration hydrogen peroxide that will eat ones arm off. We intentionally don't sell it to the general public at that concentration for safety reasons. It seems that the benefits outweigh the costs in my example and with thebtopic at hand. A bit more convenience for some is not worth the preventable death of others.
      - Ekaros 4y ago
        I'm kinda torn should Amazon be selling high-purity dangerous chemicals or not. On other hand it makes life easy, but on other maybe somethings should have some control in place. That being specialist store who might look at order and give some customer support.
      - moistly 4y ago
        > We intentionally don't sell it to the general public at that concentration for safety reasons We don’t? Then please explain how I have a bottle of 30% H2O2 sitting on my paints & solvents shelf in the garage. I bought it at my local farm & feed shop. No ID, licence, or even proof of farm ownership required. Shit is scary af, but I gotta say it does on hell of a job at cleaning mold and mildew out of my window frames.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        Exactly my point. Your local farm and feed ship is not a local pharmacy or grocery store. It's a specialty store.
        moistly 4y ago
        It’s a store that is open to the general public. You claimed that stores don’t sell it to the general public. Obviously they do, because I walked in off the street and bought it.
      - catiopatio 4y ago
        > A bit more convenience for some is not worth the preventable death of others. Why not? Why should I be inconvenienced because a rounding-error’s worth of people made the choice, of their own free will, to misuse a product to harm themselves? This didn’t happen accidentally. It’s not some kind of attractive nuisance.
        hrbf 4y ago
        > Why should I be inconvenienced because a rounding-error’s worth of people made the choice, of their own free will, to misuse a product to harm themselves? I guess I’m not surprised that if self-obsessed people lacking nuance and empathy grow in number everywhere that they are also present on HN. Just look at the wording. I’ve noticed them more frequently as of late, in threads regarding war, death and suffering. Furthermore, to claim a severely depressed teenager is a fully-formed person doing something “of their own free will” betrays fundamental ignorance regarding what depression is, as well as how teenagers function.
        fastball 4y ago
        > Insert Benjamin Franklin quote about sacrificing liberty for safety here.
        hrbf 4y ago
        So providing an effective means of protecting depressed non-adults from the frictionless purchase of above-laboratory strength chemicals to potentially kill themselves by as trivial a measure as verifying age on delivery is somehow infringing on your liberty. Got it.
        catiopatio 4y ago
        Yes, it very clearly is, and the fact that you think age verification on delivery is “trivial” is alarming and depressing.
        4y ago
      - adrianN 4y ago
        I bought a kilogram of pure NaOH from Amazon to make soap with no questions asked. That will also eat my arm off. We don't sell peroxides because they can be used to make explosives.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        Can't soap making supplies also be used to make explosives? I learned that in Fight Club.
- fastball 4y ago
  Which "how to kill yourself with Sodium Nitrate" book is Amazon selling?
  - some_random 4y ago
    Per the complaint[1], it's "The Peaceful Pill" by Dr. Philip Nitschke [1] 85, https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/McCarthy-et-al-v-Amazon-Complaint.pdf https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/McCar...
hooverd 4y ago
That particular combination seems likely to be a sex thing.
- Someone1234 4y ago
  And then they'd sue Amazon for "promoting sex kits to children." This type of lawsuit/logic/reporting is an absolute field day, you just have to come up with the clickbait "[frequently purchased together items] kit promoted TO CHILDREN."
  - atahanacar 4y ago
    I'm very sick and tired of the "What about the children?" mentality. The same excuse is used worldwide for censorship of movies and games, banning "dangerous" products, making anti-LGBT laws because "gay propaganda is making our kids gay", attacking couples because they kissed in public... A child is their parents'/caretakers' responsibility. I shouldn't have to give away my freedoms just because of some negligent parents.

imglorp 4y ago

A closer metaphor might be banning those magnetic bead sculptures because a child might swallow the beads. They were banned for anyone to buy not just children. https://gizmodo.com/buckyballs-magnets-have-been-banned-by-the-feds-update-5929064 https://gizmodo.com/buckyballs-magnets-have-been-banned-by-t...

bombcar 4y ago
You can probably get basically the same thing from McMaster-Carr: https://www.mcmaster.com/magnet-ball/shape~ball/neodymium-magnets-7/ https://www.mcmaster.com/magnet-ball/shape~ball/neodymium-ma...
cypress66 4y ago
I disagree. That's a toy that kids might choke on. Kids aren't going to randomly buy sodium nitrate and accidentally eat it.
krisoft 4y ago
You can still buy spherical neodynium magnets if you want to. They are just not sold as toys. Also even the ban on the toy has been overturned: https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/a24110/buckyballs-legal-us-2016/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/culture/a24110/buckyballs-l...

iancmceachern 4y ago

Or lawn darts, or those old time open fans that you can stick your hands in (or more often kids), or x-ray radiation based shoe sizing machines, or asbestos tiles. As stated in other comments, this is a concentration that's not used for anything else. The food preservative is a different concentration. A better analogy would be to ban ropes that are pre-tied into noises and cannot be untied, so they can only be used for hanging. Yep, I agree, those should be banned too.

cypress66 4y ago
You can go to Sigma Aldrich website and buy tens of thousands of other chemicals as deadly or deadlier. Also I disagree that the concentration is not used for anything else.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Yes, but that's not amazon, it's not a general store, it's a chemical supplier. The issue here is ease of access and direction (the instructions on how to do it), not the fact that these things exist. It's like hydrogen peroxide. You can go to a chemical supplier and buy high concentration stuff that will eat your arm off. They don't sell that at the grocery store, because it'd be dangerous. The high concentration stuff is still available to those who need it, but it's not so easy to get and readily available that it causes preventable deaths.
  - catiopatio 4y ago
    They sell bleach and ammonia-based cleaning products at the grocery store, and those will eat your lungs out if you mix them. They sell dry ice, and that’ll give you frostbite in seconds if you’re stupid. They sell extra-strength Tylenol, and that’ll destroy your liver if you just take 10-20 of them. They don’t sell concentrated hydrogen peroxide at the grocery store because nobody is asking and there’s not a market for it — not because it’s dangerous.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago

derbOac 4y ago

Seriously... I understand the concerns here but I'm so disturbed by some of the comments, like the idea that "teenagers would almost certainly not be interested in learning how to cure meats." Statements like that make a lot of prejudicial assumptions. I'm so tired of kneejerk reactions that X is involved in some tragic events so we should ban them, as opposed to looking deeper into the real reasons things are happening. It's much easier to blame Amazon (who I do not have positive feelings about) for selling sodium nitrate than it is to deal with the socioeconomic and environmental circumstances leading to someone wanting to kill themselves. Pills and purchasing restrictions have become the "let them eat cake" of the 21st century.