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The war is "between" Russia and Ukraine but the US is funding and arming Ukraine because the US wants to hurt Russia. How is that not the dictionary definition

The war is "between" Russia and Ukraine but the US is funding and arming Ukraine because the US wants to hurt Russia. How is that not the dictionary definition of a "proxy war"? Swap the US and Russia and replace "Ukraine" with "North Vietnam" and you have a historical conflict which everyone agrees was a proxy war. How is this different?

watwut 4y ago
EU countries are funding and arming Ukraine too. Baltic states and Poland are the ones pushing the most for support for Ukraine. And obviously, all actual fighting and dying is done by Ukrainians. They are the ones being tortured and oppressed on occupied territories too. If Russia won, all Ukrainians would be oppressed by Russia.
foepys 4y ago
Basically all of Europe is arming Ukraine because Europe knows that if Russia takes Ukraine, Russia will eventually want to annex all other ex-USSR states as well. If not more.
- m000 4y ago
  > Russia will eventually want to annex all other ex-USSR states as well I don't know how people buy such uninformed BS. First, a lot of ex-USSR states are already NATO members. So, no game. Further, USSR was a political construct. Their whole expansionism was based on that. Russia on the other hand is a nation state. They are not capable of annexing any region where there is no Russian-speaking + Russia-aligned population. Putin knows that very well. As put by people who probably know better [1]: One obvious difference between the Soviet Union and Russia is that the Soviet governing elite embraced Marxism-Leninism and its objective of world revolution. Today's Russia is not a messianic power. [1] https://nationalinterest.org/feature/russia-not-soviet-union-27041 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/russia-not-soviet-union...
  - foepys 4y ago
    Have you looked at a map? You are forgetting about Moldova, which already has Russian military bases "protecting" Russians in a small strip at the border to Ukraine, effectively occupying land. Then you are forgetting about Georgia where Russia fought a war in 2008 resulting in Russia creating South Ossetia on Georgian land. Exactly the thing they now tried to do with Luhansk and Donetsk. Then there is Kazakhstan where Russia did a military intervention to support the government in 2022, this year! Although, Kazakhstan seems to want to sever the ties to Russia now. I have a feeling that you don't know anything about this topic and just read a single article and now feel informed while in reality you were hit by Russian propaganda. The author of the article you posted thinks that NATO made Russia invade Ukraine by expanding to far East, explicitly following Russian talking points.
bandyaboot 4y ago
Is it just the US that’s doing this only to hurt Russia? What about the countries that are facing very real consequences to join them? And the countries that have abandoned their long-standing neutrality in order to do so? Could it actually be that all of these countries including the US just actually find it deeply offensive that Russia has decided it’s ok to invade a country and commit atrocities all so that they can tell a free people that, no, you are not allowed to be a free people.
dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
> because the US wants to hurt Russia You seem to forget Ukraine in this equation entirely, you know, the country that is the victim of Russian aggression including murder of civilians, rape, and theft. They are constantly begging for help to fight the invaders. Is it remotely possible that's why the US is helping for this reason and to stop Russian aggression? Any "hurt" Russia receives is entirely self inflicted. This is a war of their choice.

watwut 4y ago

EU countries are funding and arming Ukraine too. Baltic states and Poland are the ones pushing the most for support for Ukraine. And obviously, all actual fighting and dying is done by Ukrainians. They are the ones being tortured and oppressed on occupied territories too. If Russia won, all Ukrainians would be oppressed by Russia.

foepys 4y ago

Basically all of Europe is arming Ukraine because Europe knows that if Russia takes Ukraine, Russia will eventually want to annex all other ex-USSR states as well. If not more.

m000 4y ago
> Russia will eventually want to annex all other ex-USSR states as well I don't know how people buy such uninformed BS. First, a lot of ex-USSR states are already NATO members. So, no game. Further, USSR was a political construct. Their whole expansionism was based on that. Russia on the other hand is a nation state. They are not capable of annexing any region where there is no Russian-speaking + Russia-aligned population. Putin knows that very well. As put by people who probably know better [1]: One obvious difference between the Soviet Union and Russia is that the Soviet governing elite embraced Marxism-Leninism and its objective of world revolution. Today's Russia is not a messianic power. [1] https://nationalinterest.org/feature/russia-not-soviet-union-27041 https://nationalinterest.org/feature/russia-not-soviet-union...
- foepys 4y ago
  Have you looked at a map? You are forgetting about Moldova, which already has Russian military bases "protecting" Russians in a small strip at the border to Ukraine, effectively occupying land. Then you are forgetting about Georgia where Russia fought a war in 2008 resulting in Russia creating South Ossetia on Georgian land. Exactly the thing they now tried to do with Luhansk and Donetsk. Then there is Kazakhstan where Russia did a military intervention to support the government in 2022, this year! Although, Kazakhstan seems to want to sever the ties to Russia now. I have a feeling that you don't know anything about this topic and just read a single article and now feel informed while in reality you were hit by Russian propaganda. The author of the article you posted thinks that NATO made Russia invade Ukraine by expanding to far East, explicitly following Russian talking points.

bandyaboot 4y ago

Is it just the US that’s doing this only to hurt Russia? What about the countries that are facing very real consequences to join them? And the countries that have abandoned their long-standing neutrality in order to do so? Could it actually be that all of these countries including the US just actually find it deeply offensive that Russia has decided it’s ok to invade a country and commit atrocities all so that they can tell a free people that, no, you are not allowed to be a free people.

dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago

> because the US wants to hurt Russia You seem to forget Ukraine in this equation entirely, you know, the country that is the victim of Russian aggression including murder of civilians, rape, and theft. They are constantly begging for help to fight the invaders. Is it remotely possible that's why the US is helping for this reason and to stop Russian aggression? Any "hurt" Russia receives is entirely self inflicted. This is a war of their choice.