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So much of recycling is more costly than getting new. I.e. injecting some (trivial) amounts of aluminum back into the extremely efficient aluminum mining/refini

So much of recycling is more costly than getting new. I.e. injecting some (trivial) amounts of aluminum back into the extremely efficient aluminum mining/refining system is honestly more trouble than it's worth. Where I live recycled aluminum cans are shipped to a steel recycling plant (something that is worthwhile) to be dumped by the traincarload into each batch to precipitate out the sulfur, then skimmed and sent to a landfill. Useful, efficient and not just theatre.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago
It’s a good thing we have an infinite amount of aluminium to mine then or the system would be unsustainable in the medium term and it would be completely brain dead to do that.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Better read some more about that - aluminum is essentially endless.
- radford-neal 4y ago
  Eight percent of the earth's crust is aluminum. That's a lot. Of course, that doesn't mean that recycling aluminum is senseless - there's the energy cost of isolating the aluminum to consider. But literally running out of aluminum is not something to worry about.
  - thakoppno 4y ago
    Anyone up for doing the math about how long it would take to deplete that much aluminum at the rate this planet consumes aluminum? Does it take us past the point the sun melts the earth?
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    Because of course we can mine the whole Earth crust. It’s a good thing our ability to effectively mine in not limited to a few kilometres and our ability to actually find ores is so amazing. I’m such a fool, sorry. More seriously, I’m done with sarcasms. We actually need to recycle aluminium. Smelting is far more energy intensive than extraction and depletion is a very real problem. First, viable gisements are not that common. Second, as we extract the best, we are faced by poorer and poorer quality of ores which mean the cost of smelting gets worse and worse. Aluminium is definitely not endless as someone would have you believe in a reply.
    - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
      Aluminum production exceeds that of all other non-ferrous metals combined. We're not anywhere near that description.
_visgean 4y ago
Isnt that called negative externalities in economic theory? e.g. the overall cost od producing the spoon will be paid by governments who will have to deal with environmental demage... (and likely increased healtcare costs..)
tsimionescu 4y ago
Re-using is still much better though - there is essentially no cost to cleaning a metal spoon compared to building and throwing away a plastic one. Bonus points for cleaning your spoons during the shower if you want to conserve water, Kramer-style (added since 90's sitcoms seem to have been popular in this thread).
tiagod 4y ago
You might've picked the worst example, as aluminium refining is an electrolysis process which is extremely energy intensive (Iceland imports a lot of ore and exports a lot of metal for this reason). I might agree with you if you back your statements up with some data, but it does go against what I've always read about aluminium in particular.

WastingMyTime89 4y ago

It’s a good thing we have an infinite amount of aluminium to mine then or the system would be unsustainable in the medium term and it would be completely brain dead to do that.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Better read some more about that - aluminum is essentially endless.
radford-neal 4y ago
Eight percent of the earth's crust is aluminum. That's a lot. Of course, that doesn't mean that recycling aluminum is senseless - there's the energy cost of isolating the aluminum to consider. But literally running out of aluminum is not something to worry about.
- thakoppno 4y ago
  Anyone up for doing the math about how long it would take to deplete that much aluminum at the rate this planet consumes aluminum? Does it take us past the point the sun melts the earth?
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Because of course we can mine the whole Earth crust. It’s a good thing our ability to effectively mine in not limited to a few kilometres and our ability to actually find ores is so amazing. I’m such a fool, sorry. More seriously, I’m done with sarcasms. We actually need to recycle aluminium. Smelting is far more energy intensive than extraction and depletion is a very real problem. First, viable gisements are not that common. Second, as we extract the best, we are faced by poorer and poorer quality of ores which mean the cost of smelting gets worse and worse. Aluminium is definitely not endless as someone would have you believe in a reply.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    Aluminum production exceeds that of all other non-ferrous metals combined. We're not anywhere near that description.

_visgean 4y ago

Isnt that called negative externalities in economic theory? e.g. the overall cost od producing the spoon will be paid by governments who will have to deal with environmental demage... (and likely increased healtcare costs..)

tsimionescu 4y ago

Re-using is still much better though - there is essentially no cost to cleaning a metal spoon compared to building and throwing away a plastic one. Bonus points for cleaning your spoons during the shower if you want to conserve water, Kramer-style (added since 90's sitcoms seem to have been popular in this thread).

tiagod 4y ago

You might've picked the worst example, as aluminium refining is an electrolysis process which is extremely energy intensive (Iceland imports a lot of ore and exports a lot of metal for this reason). I might agree with you if you back your statements up with some data, but it does go against what I've always read about aluminium in particular.