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Funny to see a bunch of (quickly flagged) comments that show a clear misunderstanding of what the German hacker scene is and wants. Besides not being a monoli

Funny to see a bunch of (quickly flagged) comments that show a clear misunderstanding of what the German hacker scene is and wants. Besides not being a monolith and this being amenable to labeling as such, it's still in many parts different from many other hacker scenes. The CCC has always had the ambition (and backing credentials/skills) to be a political movement as much as a technological one. In fact that's the origin story of the Congress; Wau Holland inviting others to "do something" with these machines that were set to change the world. This political attitude always had a left and anti-fascist bent, IMHO something that Germany in the 80s, and nowadays, desperately needs. The US scene in comparison (seen from far, just to be clear) looks much more comfortable with closeness to corporate and state actors. Having worked with the intelligence community seems to be more of a badge of honor over there? In France in comparison the scene as I see it focuses much more on making things, while organisations like La Quadrature du Net are well known but small and not at all organized/supported in the grass roots way that the CCC is. Which is why they seem to enjoy the CCC events, it's always great to have them there. :) I might be getting this very wrong, like I said I'm only seeing the US scene from "over here" and I only have shallow interaction with the French scene. I'd also love to hear from other places and how your local nerd communities do in terms of taking political agency.

aestetix 4y ago
I agree completely. There are many things I like about CCC. For example, corporate sponsorship is forbidden, and many speakers use handles rather than their legal name. This distancing from $dayjob helps to prevent government/military and corporations from undue influence, and also frees the speakers to say what they actually think about a technology, not fearing that they will lose their job over it. Regarding the political bent, one big difference from the US is that people at CCC will openly express their disagreements, and are generally respectful about it. The only limitations are that Nazis are not allowed, which is partly because they are forbidden by law.
j3s 4y ago
> The US scene in comparison (seen from far, just to be clear) looks much more comfortable with closeness to corporate and state actors. this is true, and it's one of the reasons I helped start cyberia.club and layerze.ro - US tech is deeply entwined with megacorps and it sucks the joy out of hacking, at least imho.
coffeeblack 4y ago
- tpush 4y ago
  Nonsense.
super256 4y ago
I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. It's merely a power move for confirming your own moral superiority. I mean, just look at the website, and you will clearly see that the whole site is meant as a joke. If you want to be political, you shouldn't start with labelling someone as "fac|rac|sex-ist" because that implicitly means that it's the end of the discussion. That's not how politics should work. Paul Graham wrote a wonderful essay about this. [2] I'm now just donating my ex-membership fee to my local Chaostreff, since I know what kind of person runs that place :) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W_61YicxOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W_61YicxOM [2] http://paulgraham.com/heresy.html http://paulgraham.com/heresy.html
- Foxboron 4y ago
  >I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. You choose to ignore the anti-trans posters they hung up in the conference center.
  - super256 4y ago
    > You choose to ignore the anti-trans posters they hung up in the conference center. This is news to me. Could you share more info about this? I did a quick google search and couldn't find anything.
    - Foxboron 4y ago
      Well, I don't know what to tell you. There isn't anything published around this. But you can maybe find traces of the posters on social media. They where an iteration of the "Birds doesn't exist..." posters which was a meme during that years CCC.
roastedpeacock 4y ago
Wau Holland. Missed by those who never met him. I too love a good talk on (e.x exploit research) and longingly wonder if in part due to attempts of censorship by companies, also the value of exploits if the 'glory times' of such presentations are over. Ultimately I respect the CCC for providing a platform to discuss difficult problems adjacent to technology as well.
thesaint 4y ago
thesaintlives 4y ago
[flagged]
- type0 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - simon_o 4y ago
    I cannot put into words the confused state of your mind that let you produce this risible word salad, so I'll just link this reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33139927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33139927
    - type0 4y ago
      You don't convince me. Please just go to Reddit where you belong and stop trolling.
      - simon_o 4y ago
        > You don't convince me. Absolutely. I can't reason people out of positions they haven't reasoned them into. Apart from that, your whole comment is so fantastically out of touch and anglo-centric, that it's actually quite funny: None of your "abstain from politics", "Marxist ideology" sound bites will elicit a reaction from the target audience of the congress, except laughter and ridicule. It just reads as your FOX News/QAnon consumption fried your brain and no one will take you seriously, except the pitiful "look at the American trying to impress with big words he doesn't understand".
        black_puppydog 4y ago
        And it's extra funny to reply this to my specific OC. I mean, talk about not understanding the CCC surroundings. :D
  - thesaintlives 4y ago

aestetix 4y ago

I agree completely. There are many things I like about CCC. For example, corporate sponsorship is forbidden, and many speakers use handles rather than their legal name. This distancing from $dayjob helps to prevent government/military and corporations from undue influence, and also frees the speakers to say what they actually think about a technology, not fearing that they will lose their job over it. Regarding the political bent, one big difference from the US is that people at CCC will openly express their disagreements, and are generally respectful about it. The only limitations are that Nazis are not allowed, which is partly because they are forbidden by law.

j3s 4y ago

> The US scene in comparison (seen from far, just to be clear) looks much more comfortable with closeness to corporate and state actors. this is true, and it's one of the reasons I helped start cyberia.club and layerze.ro - US tech is deeply entwined with megacorps and it sucks the joy out of hacking, at least imho.

coffeeblack 4y ago

tpush 4y ago
Nonsense.

super256 4y ago

I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. Sorry, but throwing someone on the floor in front of the congress building for registering clearly sarcastic domains such as "hitler.rocks" and "nuke.africa" is just not what I understand under anti-facism. It's merely a power move for confirming your own moral superiority. I mean, just look at the website, and you will clearly see that the whole site is meant as a joke. If you want to be political, you shouldn't start with labelling someone as "fac|rac|sex-ist" because that implicitly means that it's the end of the discussion. That's not how politics should work. Paul Graham wrote a wonderful essay about this. [2] I'm now just donating my ex-membership fee to my local Chaostreff, since I know what kind of person runs that place :) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W_61YicxOM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2W_61YicxOM [2] http://paulgraham.com/heresy.html http://paulgraham.com/heresy.html

Foxboron 4y ago
>I left the CCC in 2020 after C3 crew decided that the cock.li mail-service is a fascist and started, escalated, and carried out an attack on its administrator Vincent Canfield [1]. You choose to ignore the anti-trans posters they hung up in the conference center.
- super256 4y ago
  > You choose to ignore the anti-trans posters they hung up in the conference center. This is news to me. Could you share more info about this? I did a quick google search and couldn't find anything.
  - Foxboron 4y ago
    Well, I don't know what to tell you. There isn't anything published around this. But you can maybe find traces of the posters on social media. They where an iteration of the "Birds doesn't exist..." posters which was a meme during that years CCC.

roastedpeacock 4y ago

Wau Holland. Missed by those who never met him. I too love a good talk on (e.x exploit research) and longingly wonder if in part due to attempts of censorship by companies, also the value of exploits if the 'glory times' of such presentations are over. Ultimately I respect the CCC for providing a platform to discuss difficult problems adjacent to technology as well.

thesaint 4y ago

thesaintlives 4y ago

[flagged]

type0 4y ago
[flagged]
- simon_o 4y ago
  I cannot put into words the confused state of your mind that let you produce this risible word salad, so I'll just link this reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33139927 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33139927
  - type0 4y ago
    You don't convince me. Please just go to Reddit where you belong and stop trolling.
    - simon_o 4y ago
      > You don't convince me. Absolutely. I can't reason people out of positions they haven't reasoned them into. Apart from that, your whole comment is so fantastically out of touch and anglo-centric, that it's actually quite funny: None of your "abstain from politics", "Marxist ideology" sound bites will elicit a reaction from the target audience of the congress, except laughter and ridicule. It just reads as your FOX News/QAnon consumption fried your brain and no one will take you seriously, except the pitiful "look at the American trying to impress with big words he doesn't understand".
      - black_puppydog 4y ago
        And it's extra funny to reply this to my specific OC. I mean, talk about not understanding the CCC surroundings. :D
- thesaintlives 4y ago