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UK has been so hot and dry this year that you are getting wild fires in England. WTF is wrong with people here are you guys so brainwashed by all the propaganda

UK has been so hot and dry this year that you are getting wild fires in England. WTF is wrong with people here are you guys so brainwashed by all the propaganda from oil and gas companies that you need to qualify every data point about global warming as maybe. In the last year we have got a huge number of data points from around the world showing effects of global warming but each article on hackernews about it top comment is a qualifying statement. Stop being ostriches and burying your head in the sand.

xbmcuser 4y ago
Even the oil and gas companies realise they cant gaslight people anymore about the obvious signs of global warming so have changed the argument to global warming being man made or or not. Not that global warming is not happening.
- jfengel 4y ago
  People are slow to get the message. I still see every stage of denialism. And the denialists at each stage never argue with each other, because none of them actually care about what's real. All they care about is the conclusion, that anybody who wants to do anything is an alarmist, and nothing in fact needs to be done.
  - junofan 4y ago
    It should be possible to advocate for solutions that more people actually want. Fifty years of preaching eco-asceticism hasn’t gotten us where we need to be.
    - jfengel 4y ago
      Which is totally unrelated to fifty years of people declaring that absolutely nothing at all must be done, no matter how reasonable, as it got harder and harder to fix.
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    > People are slow to get the message. No they aren't, this is actually the worst propaganda I see these days. People believe climate change is real and they want to do more to fix it. Even in the most extreme countries (Indonesia, Nigeria, Saudi, etc.,) denialists are maybe 30% of the population. In all of the western world, including USA, public belief in a "climate emergency" is overwhelming in political terms - 65% even at the lower end like USA, the majority of people want to see more action. Far less supported and disliked legislation and policies have been rammed through political systems frequently. The propaganda is that it's some podunk backwater holdouts who somehow wield this vast power over politicians who are the problem and that people still need to be "educated" about climate change. This is a lie. It's not. It's the politicians and their corporate owners who are the problem. And it's not just one side of politics either -- the other side also holds great power but conveniently decides to use it for much less popular actions and things rather than seriously addressing "the greatest threat to humanity". Doens't add up, does it? "The dumb stupid redneck" is a scapegoat. A divisive diversionary tactic used by your politician so you don't hold them accountable.
    - _ph_ 4y ago
      I am not saying you are wrong, but people are definitely the problem too. There are so many denying the climate change or at least not really caring enough to cause any action. And fighting the fight against climate change by e.g. stopping the roll out of renewables. Why are people fighting wind generators, why are so few putting solar cells onto their house roofs? Why are people fighting against electric cars?
      - throwawaylinux 4y ago
        No, political corruption by fossil fuel industry is the problem. There is overwhelming public support for more action on climate change. Politicians who told you climate change was the most important problem consistently behave contrary to those claims. That's what it comes down to. There are also a bunch of people who don't want it. They're not the problem though because at times when their politicians did not hold enough power to prevent action, there was still no action. Pretty simple test there. If any segment of the public "need education" about the issue before something meaningful will be done, it is actually the voters who support climate change, and what they need to be educated on is the fact that their politicians are failing them and must be held to account.
iinnPP 4y ago
The problem is simple and not at all what you are implying. When you say that the cause of X is global warming/climate change without a qualifier, you are making an unverified statement which is likely true. Likely true is not definitely true and thus presenting it as definitely true is a lie. This causes distrust and is one of the reasons people are losing trust in the media. In Canada for example, we are constantly told by our state funded media that hurricane Fiona was climate change. When the weather is atypical it is climate change. Absolutely zero care is given to the people who understand that atypical weather happens nearly every year if not every year. This is causing distrust. We also have our PM. A man elected by name and haircut. He has done some good, but he has also publicly praised China's system of governance as being admirable[1]. Between these three points, people have reasons to be a sceptic. Climate change is also not the only topic like this in Canada and this problem isn't only in Canada. [1]https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/justin-trudeau-s-foolish-china-remarks-spark-anger-1.2421351 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/justin-trudeau-s-fool...
- osigurdson 4y ago
  I agree. It isn't reasonable to point to climate change as the cause of any single event. Once records start getting broken on a regular basis however, it is necessary to accept that as evidence.
bArray 4y ago
> UK has been so hot and dry this year that you are getting wild fires in England. The UK does get wild fires. They are mostly controlled for the most part due to the great efforts of the forestry commission. > WTF is wrong with people here are you guys so brainwashed by all the propaganda from oil and gas companies that you need to qualify every data point about global warming as maybe. No, we need to be careful about pointing at specific data points and shouting "SEE!", because if it turns out not to be related, you hurt your argument. > In the last year we have got a huge number of data points from around the world showing effects of global warming but each article on hackernews about it top comment is a qualifying statement. There is no problem with caution, and no problem with honest good faith discussion. > Stop being ostriches and burying your head in the sand. Every generation believes in some disaster within their lifetime. This mostly affects young people, and then they grow older and see things don't actually really change so much.

xbmcuser 4y ago

Even the oil and gas companies realise they cant gaslight people anymore about the obvious signs of global warming so have changed the argument to global warming being man made or or not. Not that global warming is not happening.

jfengel 4y ago
People are slow to get the message. I still see every stage of denialism. And the denialists at each stage never argue with each other, because none of them actually care about what's real. All they care about is the conclusion, that anybody who wants to do anything is an alarmist, and nothing in fact needs to be done.
- junofan 4y ago
  It should be possible to advocate for solutions that more people actually want. Fifty years of preaching eco-asceticism hasn’t gotten us where we need to be.
  - jfengel 4y ago
    Which is totally unrelated to fifty years of people declaring that absolutely nothing at all must be done, no matter how reasonable, as it got harder and harder to fix.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  > People are slow to get the message. No they aren't, this is actually the worst propaganda I see these days. People believe climate change is real and they want to do more to fix it. Even in the most extreme countries (Indonesia, Nigeria, Saudi, etc.,) denialists are maybe 30% of the population. In all of the western world, including USA, public belief in a "climate emergency" is overwhelming in political terms - 65% even at the lower end like USA, the majority of people want to see more action. Far less supported and disliked legislation and policies have been rammed through political systems frequently. The propaganda is that it's some podunk backwater holdouts who somehow wield this vast power over politicians who are the problem and that people still need to be "educated" about climate change. This is a lie. It's not. It's the politicians and their corporate owners who are the problem. And it's not just one side of politics either -- the other side also holds great power but conveniently decides to use it for much less popular actions and things rather than seriously addressing "the greatest threat to humanity". Doens't add up, does it? "The dumb stupid redneck" is a scapegoat. A divisive diversionary tactic used by your politician so you don't hold them accountable.
  - _ph_ 4y ago
    I am not saying you are wrong, but people are definitely the problem too. There are so many denying the climate change or at least not really caring enough to cause any action. And fighting the fight against climate change by e.g. stopping the roll out of renewables. Why are people fighting wind generators, why are so few putting solar cells onto their house roofs? Why are people fighting against electric cars?
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      No, political corruption by fossil fuel industry is the problem. There is overwhelming public support for more action on climate change. Politicians who told you climate change was the most important problem consistently behave contrary to those claims. That's what it comes down to. There are also a bunch of people who don't want it. They're not the problem though because at times when their politicians did not hold enough power to prevent action, there was still no action. Pretty simple test there. If any segment of the public "need education" about the issue before something meaningful will be done, it is actually the voters who support climate change, and what they need to be educated on is the fact that their politicians are failing them and must be held to account.

iinnPP 4y ago

The problem is simple and not at all what you are implying. When you say that the cause of X is global warming/climate change without a qualifier, you are making an unverified statement which is likely true. Likely true is not definitely true and thus presenting it as definitely true is a lie. This causes distrust and is one of the reasons people are losing trust in the media. In Canada for example, we are constantly told by our state funded media that hurricane Fiona was climate change. When the weather is atypical it is climate change. Absolutely zero care is given to the people who understand that atypical weather happens nearly every year if not every year. This is causing distrust. We also have our PM. A man elected by name and haircut. He has done some good, but he has also publicly praised China's system of governance as being admirable[1]. Between these three points, people have reasons to be a sceptic. Climate change is also not the only topic like this in Canada and this problem isn't only in Canada. [1]https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/justin-trudeau-s-foolish-china-remarks-spark-anger-1.2421351 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/justin-trudeau-s-fool...

osigurdson 4y ago
I agree. It isn't reasonable to point to climate change as the cause of any single event. Once records start getting broken on a regular basis however, it is necessary to accept that as evidence.

bArray 4y ago

> UK has been so hot and dry this year that you are getting wild fires in England. The UK does get wild fires. They are mostly controlled for the most part due to the great efforts of the forestry commission. > WTF is wrong with people here are you guys so brainwashed by all the propaganda from oil and gas companies that you need to qualify every data point about global warming as maybe. No, we need to be careful about pointing at specific data points and shouting "SEE!", because if it turns out not to be related, you hurt your argument. > In the last year we have got a huge number of data points from around the world showing effects of global warming but each article on hackernews about it top comment is a qualifying statement. There is no problem with caution, and no problem with honest good faith discussion. > Stop being ostriches and burying your head in the sand. Every generation believes in some disaster within their lifetime. This mostly affects young people, and then they grow older and see things don't actually really change so much.