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Interesting. I found myself responding to the article in much the same way as you. Also Swedish. The question is: are we being rational or deluded? I have frie

by krig 15y ago

Interesting. I found myself responding to the article in much the same way as you. Also Swedish. The question is: are we being rational or deluded? I have friends who are medical professionals and I don't recognize them in this either: I highly doubt any of them have NO CODE tattoos or anything equivalent. I suspect society shouldering most of the cost might be a factor: with a privatized payment system, there are perhaps incentives to go too far that aren't there when there's no profit to be made? That's pure conjecture, though.

Cass 15y ago
This is not a question of being "rational", and there's no right or wrong answer. People make trade-offs between quality and quantity of life every day. Do I want to quit smoking, drinking, drugs, and take up sports, etc for a chance at a longer, healthier life? Or do I grab all the fun I can, and if it costs me ten years, oh well? The right decision will look different for every person - and it's not black or white, but a continuum. The choice of how much pain is worth it for how much of a chance at a longer life is going to look different depending on your religion, your responsibilities, your age, your experiences with pain, your family, your culture, etc. And yes, of course the cost of treatment will factor into that decision for both the doctors and the patient.
- krig 15y ago
  It can be a rational or irrational choice depending on the available treatment and the specific case. A blanket statement that says "do not resuscitate" ignores cases where resuscitation could have been successful and where the chance of revival outweighs the risk of undue pain and suffering. In a world where the only available treatment is blood-letting or getting your limbed sawed off by a hacksaw, a "do not resuscitate" policy is clearly more rational than in the Star Trek/sci-fi world where treatment consists of a doctor waving a magic iPad over your head and nanobots cure you painlessly. Since we're somewhere in between those two it becomes more complicated, but evaluating the risks and benefits and making an as informed choice as possible based on the available information still seems to me to be the rational way to look at it. Making future medical decisions based on an emotional reaction to individual cases, on the other hand, seems to me to be irrational and counter-productive.
earl 15y ago
I'm an american and for me, it's not an issue of cost. The issue is how do you want to end your life on this earth. My father died of lymphoma when I was 17; he got it twice. The survivorship rates if the first set of treatments didn't work were not awesome. In his case, he died after multiple rounds of chemo and radiation and surgeries, incisions that didn't heal for multiple months, collapsed veins leading to a shunt installed in his chest, persistent nausea for half a year, so much pain that if properly medicated he was barely lucid, being forced into a wheelchair, having to wear a diaper, bleeding from his eyes and mucous membranes, etc. Having seen his tour of the medical system, I desperately hope that if I were ever in that position, I'd have the strength to say no: treat the pain and I'll die in peace.
- krig 15y ago
  I don't think the issue is the cost to the patient, but rather that in a private payer system, it becomes profitable to keep patients alive for as long as possible. In a public payment system, you could crassly say that keeping patients alive is a cost to the system. Now, that would seem to imply that the public option might lead to early termination of treatment in cases where treatment would be feasible but expensive, and perhaps that does happen.

by krig 15y ago

Cass 15y ago

This is not a question of being "rational", and there's no right or wrong answer. People make trade-offs between quality and quantity of life every day. Do I want to quit smoking, drinking, drugs, and take up sports, etc for a chance at a longer, healthier life? Or do I grab all the fun I can, and if it costs me ten years, oh well? The right decision will look different for every person - and it's not black or white, but a continuum. The choice of how much pain is worth it for how much of a chance at a longer life is going to look different depending on your religion, your responsibilities, your age, your experiences with pain, your family, your culture, etc. And yes, of course the cost of treatment will factor into that decision for both the doctors and the patient.

krig 15y ago
It can be a rational or irrational choice depending on the available treatment and the specific case. A blanket statement that says "do not resuscitate" ignores cases where resuscitation could have been successful and where the chance of revival outweighs the risk of undue pain and suffering. In a world where the only available treatment is blood-letting or getting your limbed sawed off by a hacksaw, a "do not resuscitate" policy is clearly more rational than in the Star Trek/sci-fi world where treatment consists of a doctor waving a magic iPad over your head and nanobots cure you painlessly. Since we're somewhere in between those two it becomes more complicated, but evaluating the risks and benefits and making an as informed choice as possible based on the available information still seems to me to be the rational way to look at it. Making future medical decisions based on an emotional reaction to individual cases, on the other hand, seems to me to be irrational and counter-productive.

earl 15y ago

I'm an american and for me, it's not an issue of cost. The issue is how do you want to end your life on this earth. My father died of lymphoma when I was 17; he got it twice. The survivorship rates if the first set of treatments didn't work were not awesome. In his case, he died after multiple rounds of chemo and radiation and surgeries, incisions that didn't heal for multiple months, collapsed veins leading to a shunt installed in his chest, persistent nausea for half a year, so much pain that if properly medicated he was barely lucid, being forced into a wheelchair, having to wear a diaper, bleeding from his eyes and mucous membranes, etc. Having seen his tour of the medical system, I desperately hope that if I were ever in that position, I'd have the strength to say no: treat the pain and I'll die in peace.

krig 15y ago
I don't think the issue is the cost to the patient, but rather that in a private payer system, it becomes profitable to keep patients alive for as long as possible. In a public payment system, you could crassly say that keeping patients alive is a cost to the system. Now, that would seem to imply that the public option might lead to early termination of treatment in cases where treatment would be feasible but expensive, and perhaps that does happen.