5 ms·

that's maybe the second or the third most important factor. the first is aggressive marketing that microsoft does for its products.

scarface74 4y ago
That unfortunately hasn’t helped C# become more popular outside of Microsoft legacy shops even when it did go cross platform and open source.
- trinovantes 4y ago
  It's used in Unity game development I think Godot also supports it
- christogreeff 4y ago
  What is a "Microsoft legacy shop" ?
  - xboxnolifes 4y ago
    Businesses that profit money without VC funding.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Banks, insurance companies, government agencies, “enterprise development”.
    - LudwigNagasena 4y ago
      So, 90% of the world GDP?
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Yes In the US though, compensation for software developers is very bi-modal. You have the “enterprise shops” that start off around $80K and max out in the mid $100s and the “tech companies” that start out in the mid $100s and end up in the $350K+ range. Most of the 2.7 million developers in the US are on the “enterprise dev” side. If you have a choice, you want to be on the “tech company” side if you care about your compensation. For context: because of path dependencies and bad career choices, I spent most of my career from 1996 - 2020 on the “enterprise dev” side and only got into $BigTech by pivoting to cloud consulting (enterprise dev + cloud + a shit ton of yaml/HCL PowerPoint slides and diagrams) Before anyone “well actually”’s me with numbers they are directionally correct on the enterprise dev side in most major cities.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- iLoveOncall 4y ago
  Well the fact that it was available solely on Windows for so long was its doom. Actually I thought of using C# a few months ago, and I was like "Oh wait, does it even work on other platforms than Windows now?". Sure I'm not a C# developer, so I'm not up to date on C# news, but that's an issue if your goal is to drive adoption. Everyone that has heard of C# should know that it's now cross-platform.
  - cesarb 4y ago
    Some things still seem to be Windows specific. If I want offline documentation (of the sort one can find at /usr/share/javadoc/java or /usr/share/doc/rust/html by installing the correct packages), every place I look tell me how to enable offline help in Visual Studio (for instance, https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/teamblog/offline-book-refresh-feb-2018 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/teamblog/offline-book-refr...). Someone here told me last time that there's a way to download whole sections of the MSDN documentation as PDF, which helps, but it's not the same thing.
    - Kwpolska 4y ago
      Off-line documentation being kind of a pain sounds like a very minor thing. Other than that, and other than the obviously Windows-specific GUI and system management libraries, the rest of C#/.NET is pretty much fully multi-platform, maybe except a few obscure things.
- ido 4y ago
  C# is extremely popular, maybe just not in your particular field.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    “My field” is a 20+ year MS ecosystem developer from C++/MFC, VB6, .Net Compact framework, .Net Framework, .Net Core, etc. As I said, very few new companies that aren’t “legacy” shops are choosing .Net. In my current job in cloud consulting at $BigTech, almost all of the .Net projects that come through are older companies compared to newer companies that are using non compiled languages. These days I write in almost any language they prefer among the popular languages.
    - ido 4y ago
      “My field” is a 20+ year MS ecosystem developer from C++/MFC, VB6, .Net Compact framework, .Net Framework, .Net Core, etc. Right, and in that field you might be correct (I don't know but I'll take your word for it). It is however not the entire software industry. As I said, very few new companies that aren’t “legacy” shops are choosing .Net. I'm a game developer and the most popular game engine (Unity) uses c#. The newest up and comer (Godot) uses their own scripting language or c# as the most popular options. I've also worked in Enterprise before and c# and java were the popular choices there and as far as I know from friends still are (especially when servicing the government)
      - scarface74 4y ago
        You realize you are echoing exactly what I’m saying? Governments are the definition of “legacy” Windows shops. The whole thing I’ve been saying is that new initiatives outside of historical Windows shop are not adopting .Net even though it’s been cross platform and open source since 2016. The new startups and newer companies that avoiding Windows like the plague are also avoiding .Net. In the US, the companies that pay top dollar - the large tech companies and well funded VC back companies are not adopting tech companies.
        4y ago
- keewee7 4y ago
  C# and ASP.NET Core feels like the default stack in Western Europe, even among startups. You have to look harder to find companies using Node.js, Rails, Django etc.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    See my previous post about the bimodal nature of tech salaries in the US. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33140210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33140210 The “startups” in the US are even bimodal. You have the ones that set up shop outside of the west coast in big cities that hire “enterprise devs” and you have the well funded ones that try to compete with big tech salary compensation.

scarface74 4y ago

That unfortunately hasn’t helped C# become more popular outside of Microsoft legacy shops even when it did go cross platform and open source.

trinovantes 4y ago
It's used in Unity game development I think Godot also supports it
christogreeff 4y ago
What is a "Microsoft legacy shop" ?
- xboxnolifes 4y ago
  Businesses that profit money without VC funding.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Banks, insurance companies, government agencies, “enterprise development”.
  - LudwigNagasena 4y ago
    So, 90% of the world GDP?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Yes In the US though, compensation for software developers is very bi-modal. You have the “enterprise shops” that start off around $80K and max out in the mid $100s and the “tech companies” that start out in the mid $100s and end up in the $350K+ range. Most of the 2.7 million developers in the US are on the “enterprise dev” side. If you have a choice, you want to be on the “tech company” side if you care about your compensation. For context: because of path dependencies and bad career choices, I spent most of my career from 1996 - 2020 on the “enterprise dev” side and only got into $BigTech by pivoting to cloud consulting (enterprise dev + cloud + a shit ton of yaml/HCL PowerPoint slides and diagrams) Before anyone “well actually”’s me with numbers they are directionally correct on the enterprise dev side in most major cities.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
iLoveOncall 4y ago
Well the fact that it was available solely on Windows for so long was its doom. Actually I thought of using C# a few months ago, and I was like "Oh wait, does it even work on other platforms than Windows now?". Sure I'm not a C# developer, so I'm not up to date on C# news, but that's an issue if your goal is to drive adoption. Everyone that has heard of C# should know that it's now cross-platform.
- cesarb 4y ago
  Some things still seem to be Windows specific. If I want offline documentation (of the sort one can find at /usr/share/javadoc/java or /usr/share/doc/rust/html by installing the correct packages), every place I look tell me how to enable offline help in Visual Studio (for instance, https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/teamblog/offline-book-refresh-feb-2018 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/teamblog/offline-book-refr...). Someone here told me last time that there's a way to download whole sections of the MSDN documentation as PDF, which helps, but it's not the same thing.
  - Kwpolska 4y ago
    Off-line documentation being kind of a pain sounds like a very minor thing. Other than that, and other than the obviously Windows-specific GUI and system management libraries, the rest of C#/.NET is pretty much fully multi-platform, maybe except a few obscure things.
ido 4y ago
C# is extremely popular, maybe just not in your particular field.
- scarface74 4y ago
  “My field” is a 20+ year MS ecosystem developer from C++/MFC, VB6, .Net Compact framework, .Net Framework, .Net Core, etc. As I said, very few new companies that aren’t “legacy” shops are choosing .Net. In my current job in cloud consulting at $BigTech, almost all of the .Net projects that come through are older companies compared to newer companies that are using non compiled languages. These days I write in almost any language they prefer among the popular languages.
  - ido 4y ago
    “My field” is a 20+ year MS ecosystem developer from C++/MFC, VB6, .Net Compact framework, .Net Framework, .Net Core, etc. Right, and in that field you might be correct (I don't know but I'll take your word for it). It is however not the entire software industry. As I said, very few new companies that aren’t “legacy” shops are choosing .Net. I'm a game developer and the most popular game engine (Unity) uses c#. The newest up and comer (Godot) uses their own scripting language or c# as the most popular options. I've also worked in Enterprise before and c# and java were the popular choices there and as far as I know from friends still are (especially when servicing the government)
    - scarface74 4y ago
      You realize you are echoing exactly what I’m saying? Governments are the definition of “legacy” Windows shops. The whole thing I’ve been saying is that new initiatives outside of historical Windows shop are not adopting .Net even though it’s been cross platform and open source since 2016. The new startups and newer companies that avoiding Windows like the plague are also avoiding .Net. In the US, the companies that pay top dollar - the large tech companies and well funded VC back companies are not adopting tech companies.
      - 4y ago
keewee7 4y ago
C# and ASP.NET Core feels like the default stack in Western Europe, even among startups. You have to look harder to find companies using Node.js, Rails, Django etc.
- scarface74 4y ago
  See my previous post about the bimodal nature of tech salaries in the US. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33140210 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33140210 The “startups” in the US are even bimodal. You have the ones that set up shop outside of the west coast in big cities that hire “enterprise devs” and you have the well funded ones that try to compete with big tech salary compensation.