6 ms·

Umm batteries all have that problem

by rdtwo 4y ago

CyanBird 4y ago
Batteries don't burn anything
- Maursault 4y ago
  except for planes
  - jimmygrapes 4y ago
    And people: https://timesofindia.com/gadgets-news/apple-watch-series-7-overheats-blows-up-in-owners-hand-report/articleshow/94683175.cms https://timesofindia.com/gadgets-news/apple-watch-series-7-o...
- elil17 4y ago
  No, but they do require a lot of nasty metals to make, whereas hydrogen combustion can be done with more commonplace materials.
kube-system 4y ago
Yeah but batteries spin motors which are 90+% efficient. ICE is < 50%. And we have electrical distribution pretty much figured out already.
- elil17 4y ago
  According to Dr. Jack Lewnard at ARPA-E, electricity costs about $100 to $250/MW-hr to deliver when amortizing the costs of the expanded grid infrastructure needed for electrification. The costs of expanding the gas grid for hydrogen (which is less energy dense than gas and requires changes to equipment) would be slightly less. Meanwhile, synthesized hydrocarbons (e.g. from direct air capture) could require essentially no changes to the gas grid Grid concerns will likely be one of the factors that determines the energy carrier of the future.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    > The costs of expanding the gas grid for hydrogen (which is less energy dense than gas and requires changes to equipment) would be slightly less. I seriously doubt this. Hydrogen is notoriously difficult to work with and also, it has no natural source. It has to be generated from some other energy source.
- Hnrobert42 4y ago
  True in the developed world. However, there are quite a few existing Diesel engines in the developing world where the grid isn’t as sorted. Now, I don’t know if hydrogen distribution would be a bigger challenge than just solving electrical distribution. But it does seem like this is a technology that could have some purpose. I mean, what about retrofitting diesel backup generators?
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Hydrogen is more difficult to transport than electricity, by far.
    - _hypx 4y ago
      Hydrogen is easier to transport than electricity because it can be pipelined and stored in tanks/caverns.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        So can CNG, which is where most hydrogen comes from anyway. Just cut out the middle step and do a CNG conversion. They’re mature, less likely to leak, and don’t attack metals.
        _hypx 4y ago
        The point is to make it from electrolysis of water.
greenthrow 4y ago
Not remotely. Batteries don't get used up in one cycle as with burning hydrogen. Batteries are far more efficient than even producing hydrogen let alone producing it and then transporting it and then burning it.

Umm batteries all have that problem

by rdtwo 4y ago

Umm batteries all have that problem

CyanBird 4y ago

Batteries don't burn anything

Maursault 4y ago
except for planes
- jimmygrapes 4y ago
  And people: https://timesofindia.com/gadgets-news/apple-watch-series-7-overheats-blows-up-in-owners-hand-report/articleshow/94683175.cms https://timesofindia.com/gadgets-news/apple-watch-series-7-o...
elil17 4y ago
No, but they do require a lot of nasty metals to make, whereas hydrogen combustion can be done with more commonplace materials.

kube-system 4y ago

Yeah but batteries spin motors which are 90+% efficient. ICE is < 50%. And we have electrical distribution pretty much figured out already.

elil17 4y ago
According to Dr. Jack Lewnard at ARPA-E, electricity costs about $100 to $250/MW-hr to deliver when amortizing the costs of the expanded grid infrastructure needed for electrification. The costs of expanding the gas grid for hydrogen (which is less energy dense than gas and requires changes to equipment) would be slightly less. Meanwhile, synthesized hydrocarbons (e.g. from direct air capture) could require essentially no changes to the gas grid Grid concerns will likely be one of the factors that determines the energy carrier of the future.
- kube-system 4y ago
  > The costs of expanding the gas grid for hydrogen (which is less energy dense than gas and requires changes to equipment) would be slightly less. I seriously doubt this. Hydrogen is notoriously difficult to work with and also, it has no natural source. It has to be generated from some other energy source.
Hnrobert42 4y ago
True in the developed world. However, there are quite a few existing Diesel engines in the developing world where the grid isn’t as sorted. Now, I don’t know if hydrogen distribution would be a bigger challenge than just solving electrical distribution. But it does seem like this is a technology that could have some purpose. I mean, what about retrofitting diesel backup generators?
- kube-system 4y ago
  Hydrogen is more difficult to transport than electricity, by far.
  - _hypx 4y ago
    Hydrogen is easier to transport than electricity because it can be pipelined and stored in tanks/caverns.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      So can CNG, which is where most hydrogen comes from anyway. Just cut out the middle step and do a CNG conversion. They’re mature, less likely to leak, and don’t attack metals.
      - _hypx 4y ago
        The point is to make it from electrolysis of water.

greenthrow 4y ago

Not remotely. Batteries don't get used up in one cycle as with burning hydrogen. Batteries are far more efficient than even producing hydrogen let alone producing it and then transporting it and then burning it.