4 ms·

Faster as in having something newer than Quake 2 run with 120 on modern hardware? By the time we have ray/path traced global illumination in a $current_year ga

by oblak 4y ago

Faster as in having something newer than Quake 2 run with 120 on modern hardware? By the time we have ray/path traced global illumination in a $current_year game, all of my hair would be white

tuvan 4y ago
A lot of current games use ray tracing as an addition to classical rasterization but NVIDIA Racer X[1] is a new tech demo/game that doesn't use any pre-baking. It's not a "real game" released by a game studio but it proves hardware is strong enough for completely simulated lighting if utilized correctly. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBYs4y1BtGg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBYs4y1BtGg
- oblak 4y ago
  Really? That is a carefully directed video with a cool audio track. Have you tried running the actual tech demo?
atoav 4y ago
I would not be that sure about that (although, admittedly I don't know the state of your hair, so maybe the timespan till all your hair is white is shorter than one might guess?) Very basic geometry renders with all bells and whistles (refraction, reflection, complex normals, sheen effect, global illumination with both refractive and reflective caustics) in sub 2 seconds in the latest blender builds on a somewhat decent laptop with a RTX2080. The same thing would have rendered for a good minute on a decent machine a few years back. And Blender is not even meant to do that realtime as it is not a game engine (anymore). So sure, going from 1.5 seconds to 1/60 seconds is a huge step, but similar steps have been made in a decade.
- oblak 4y ago
  I am just that annoying guy trying to remind everyone Q2 RTX is still the best we've got in terms of actual games. Take that at face value. It barely runs on ~6 year old gpu. I was about to pull a few numbers out of my ass as to how it must on a 3090 but then I thought someone on youtube must've done it already. And they have[0]. 52 fps is not great. I am no game maker of any kind but even my non-pro eyes can tell modern titles have way more geometry so the best we've got out of them is shiny surfaces and fake GI like in Metro. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVS2zwqeUaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVS2zwqeUaU That said, I am eager to get my hands on that mythical ray traced RTCW someone at AMD has been working on.
  - fl0wenol 4y ago
    Honest to goodness the results don't seem worth it for the power usage. Pre-baked lighting, environment maps, material shaders look _really good_ and are easy to get decent frame rates out of without sacrificing artistic freedom. Why are we making it more difficult for ourselves with global illumination which just introduces more problems. It's just very difficult to realistically light things while still maintaining high-visibilty of game assets in dynamic situations. It sells graphics cards but I just don't think it's very practical.
mrshadowgoose 4y ago
My condolences for the imminent loss of hair color.
- oblak 4y ago
  I am just morphing into my Targaryen form, only without the dragons and everything else that makes them special.
zokier 4y ago
I thought raytraced GI was pretty unexceptional these days, Metro Exodus did that already back in 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms7d-3Dprio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms7d-3Dprio
- oblak 4y ago
  Yes, ray traced GI in Metro was pretty unimpressive.
- Veedrac 4y ago
  Global illumination is a very broad topic, and there are many different implementations at different levels of approximation. Metro Exodus used one version that I think was one bounce only, and heavily denoised. The Enhanced Edition added probe based GI, which is infinite bounce but only captures low frequency lighting. Lumen uses surface caching, which is expensive and has low frequency temporal noise, but is higher quality yet. This video was probably covering ReSTIR GI, which is a much more advanced newer technique that has a diffuse surface approximation for multi-bounce but is otherwise almost unbiased, but might have been referring to the even newer GRIS, which can be actually fully unbiased. So... yes and no? Some GI is unimpressive, though IMO Metro Exodus' still holds up, but the cutting-edge stuff you can only see in tech demos right now.

by oblak 4y ago

Faster as in having something newer than Quake 2 run with 120 on modern hardware? By the time we have ray/path traced global illumination in a $current_year game, all of my hair would be white

tuvan 4y ago

A lot of current games use ray tracing as an addition to classical rasterization but NVIDIA Racer X[1] is a new tech demo/game that doesn't use any pre-baking. It's not a "real game" released by a game studio but it proves hardware is strong enough for completely simulated lighting if utilized correctly. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBYs4y1BtGg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBYs4y1BtGg

oblak 4y ago
Really? That is a carefully directed video with a cool audio track. Have you tried running the actual tech demo?

atoav 4y ago

I would not be that sure about that (although, admittedly I don't know the state of your hair, so maybe the timespan till all your hair is white is shorter than one might guess?) Very basic geometry renders with all bells and whistles (refraction, reflection, complex normals, sheen effect, global illumination with both refractive and reflective caustics) in sub 2 seconds in the latest blender builds on a somewhat decent laptop with a RTX2080. The same thing would have rendered for a good minute on a decent machine a few years back. And Blender is not even meant to do that realtime as it is not a game engine (anymore). So sure, going from 1.5 seconds to 1/60 seconds is a huge step, but similar steps have been made in a decade.

oblak 4y ago
I am just that annoying guy trying to remind everyone Q2 RTX is still the best we've got in terms of actual games. Take that at face value. It barely runs on ~6 year old gpu. I was about to pull a few numbers out of my ass as to how it must on a 3090 but then I thought someone on youtube must've done it already. And they have[0]. 52 fps is not great. I am no game maker of any kind but even my non-pro eyes can tell modern titles have way more geometry so the best we've got out of them is shiny surfaces and fake GI like in Metro. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVS2zwqeUaU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVS2zwqeUaU That said, I am eager to get my hands on that mythical ray traced RTCW someone at AMD has been working on.
- fl0wenol 4y ago
  Honest to goodness the results don't seem worth it for the power usage. Pre-baked lighting, environment maps, material shaders look _really good_ and are easy to get decent frame rates out of without sacrificing artistic freedom. Why are we making it more difficult for ourselves with global illumination which just introduces more problems. It's just very difficult to realistically light things while still maintaining high-visibilty of game assets in dynamic situations. It sells graphics cards but I just don't think it's very practical.

mrshadowgoose 4y ago

My condolences for the imminent loss of hair color.

oblak 4y ago
I am just morphing into my Targaryen form, only without the dragons and everything else that makes them special.

zokier 4y ago

I thought raytraced GI was pretty unexceptional these days, Metro Exodus did that already back in 2018: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms7d-3Dprio https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms7d-3Dprio

oblak 4y ago
Yes, ray traced GI in Metro was pretty unimpressive.
Veedrac 4y ago
Global illumination is a very broad topic, and there are many different implementations at different levels of approximation. Metro Exodus used one version that I think was one bounce only, and heavily denoised. The Enhanced Edition added probe based GI, which is infinite bounce but only captures low frequency lighting. Lumen uses surface caching, which is expensive and has low frequency temporal noise, but is higher quality yet. This video was probably covering ReSTIR GI, which is a much more advanced newer technique that has a diffuse surface approximation for multi-bounce but is otherwise almost unbiased, but might have been referring to the even newer GRIS, which can be actually fully unbiased. So... yes and no? Some GI is unimpressive, though IMO Metro Exodus' still holds up, but the cutting-edge stuff you can only see in tech demos right now.