5 ms·

> All of those are claims that are made by the very ones who lied 8 years about nonexistent WMDs. Which individuals are those? Can you name them? Re “the Ukra

> All of those are claims that are made by the very ones who lied 8 years about nonexistent WMDs. Which individuals are those? Can you name them? Re “the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up,” I’d also like a name for that. Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets, and even Russian media is clamoring that it’s not brutal enough.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> Which individuals are those? Can you name them? All the mainstream media said iraq has WMDs... it was basically on every european and american tv channel in preparation for the war. Once before that, we heard that iraqi soldiers killed babies... that was a "fun" one too... Even tony blair admited it (the WMDs) was a lie: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-tony-blair-was-not-straight-with-the-nation-over-iraq-war https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-ton... The same media also reported of the "Ghost of kiyev".. so yeah... surely we must believe them "now". > Re “the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up,” I’d also like a name for that. Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets, and even Russian media is clamoring that it’s not brutal enough. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-31/card/ukraine-s-parliament-dismisses-human-rights-chief-1kQWT7i0GHXyeqh6spRe https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-... > Lawmaker Pavlo Frolov said Ms. Denisova was also accused of making insensitive and unverifiable statements about alleged Russian sex crimes and spending too much time in Western Europe during the invasion. > “The unclear focus of the Ombudsman's media work on the numerous details of ‘sexual crimes committed in an unnatural way’ and ‘rape of children’ in the occupied territories that could not be confirmed by evidence, only harmed Ukraine,” Mr. Frolov said in a Facebook post.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe. This is not an addressable concern to be honest. It’s like complaining about “the elites.” Just needs to be more specific. Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes? Sure, people lie, but then that obviously prompts the question of why haven’t all the other people who have been discussing Russian crimes been fired as well (since, as you’re implying, the crimes are fake?)
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    I'm saying that mainstream media has an agenda and is showing us propaganda. The mainstream media told us about dead babies in iraq, told us about WMDs and told us about nazis in ukraine ( https://i.imgur.com/mRAaOo0.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mRAaOo0.jpg ). Then the war started, and suddenly nazis are a conspiracy theory. It's a war, shit happens, media focuses on every dead civilian who died because of russians, and ignores all the dead civilians killed by american bombs, even at weddings in countries US is not even at war with, and it ignores all the dead civilians killed by ukranians, and it ignores all the dead civilians killed by israelis, etc.
    - llamaimperative 4y ago
      No one is saying the Nazis thing is “a conspiracy theory.” They’re saying they don’t care. There are neo-nazi elements in every country’s military, especially in Europe. That doesn’t mean Nazis are okay, nor does it mean all of those countries which have those elements are illegitimate and no longer have a right to self-defense. This point is never raised as an effort to get said Nazis out of combat/prevalence (in which case, sure, let’s do it). It’s just used to suggest we shouldn’t be supporting a democratic ally who got invaded by an autocratic warlord with imperial motives. There was a great article a few years ago about the huge Neo-Nazi element in the German military. It’s a huge problem. It’s bad. Does this mean we need to allow Russia to roll tanks into Berlin and put up a wall again? That’s why you’re getting dismissed so readily that you think it’s because people believe it’s a “conspiracy theory.” It’s a completely meaningless point. It has no bearing on the situation whatsoever.
      - unity1001 4y ago
        > No one is saying the Nazis thing is “a conspiracy theory.” They’re saying they don’t care. There are neo-nazi elements in every country’s military, especially in Europe These are not 'Neonazi elements'. They are actual Nazi brigades comprised of actual nazis who know their theory, who think that they are ubermensch and everyone else either should be enslaved or killed. They are not your average skinhead occasionally attacking immigrants. And yeah, the media is now past saying that Nazis are a conspiracy theory - that was until a few months ago. Because the Nazis were unrepentant in their Nazism, now the media is whitewashing them.
unity1001 4y ago
> Which individuals are those? Can you name them? Entire mainstream corporate media, foremost Angloamerican, current US State Dept., CIA, other 3-letter agency top officials, who were the mid-level foot soldiers implementing the lies, the ex top officials of those agencies, who are retired and who are now called 'the intelligence community' now, making 6 figures while working in private think tanks who manufacture and sell those lies, all the privately-owned satellite media with Angloamerican and local neoliberal shareholders, the entire 2003 shtick. > Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets They haven't been. BBC, Le Monde or Spiegel are not 'broad, different outlets'. They have been lying about everything along with their big daddy since a long time, including the nonexistent WMDs. There isn't anything as such in Indian, Indonesian, South American, Vietnamese, Egyptian or South African media. That's broad. Not the outlets who are owned by the same lot. The below article bluntly demonstrates the falsity of the existence of 'free media' in the capitalist West. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/five-reasons-why-we-don-t-have-free-and-independent-press-in-uk-and-what-we-can-do-about/ https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/five-reason... When your 6 figure salary depends on agreeing with the majority shareholder, you 'just' find reasons to do so.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Al Jazeera: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2022/6/21/inside-ukraine-war-crimes-investigations https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2022/6/21/inside-ukra... Buenos Aires Times: https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/amp/world/tougher-russia-sanctions-urged-over-ukraine-war-crimes-in-bucha.phtml https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/amp/world/tougher-russia-san... India at the UN condemned “war crimes in Bucha,” which they stopped short of accusing their strategic partner of, but obviously it wasn’t Ukrainian armed forces walking through Bucha executing civilians, right? Seems odd to lament the lack of truly free media in the west and then believe even half a word out of Russia’s mouth. Also FYI, “intelligence community” does not refer to retired government people on the media circuit. It refers to the actual intelligence agencies themselves.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    Similar news were made, and similar condemnations were issued at the UN for a lot of other 'war crimes' that turned out to be nonexistent. > then believe even half a word out of Russia’s mouth. That's your own personal bias - 'either/or'. There are many other sources than 'Russia'. The world is not bipolar like in Anglosphere. > Also FYI, “intelligence community” does not refer to retired government people on the media circuit No. 'The intelligence community' as a term is used to include the retired personas now working in think tanks, in order to give them authority. Those people's papers from think tanks cant be referenced or cited as belonging to actual intelligence agencies after they retired. But if you say 'intelligence community', you can cite them all you want...

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

> Which individuals are those? Can you name them? All the mainstream media said iraq has WMDs... it was basically on every european and american tv channel in preparation for the war. Once before that, we heard that iraqi soldiers killed babies... that was a "fun" one too... Even tony blair admited it (the WMDs) was a lie: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-tony-blair-was-not-straight-with-the-nation-over-iraq-war https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-ton... The same media also reported of the "Ghost of kiyev".. so yeah... surely we must believe them "now". > Re “the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up,” I’d also like a name for that. Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets, and even Russian media is clamoring that it’s not brutal enough. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-31/card/ukraine-s-parliament-dismisses-human-rights-chief-1kQWT7i0GHXyeqh6spRe https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-... > Lawmaker Pavlo Frolov said Ms. Denisova was also accused of making insensitive and unverifiable statements about alleged Russian sex crimes and spending too much time in Western Europe during the invasion. > “The unclear focus of the Ombudsman's media work on the numerous details of ‘sexual crimes committed in an unnatural way’ and ‘rape of children’ in the occupied territories that could not be confirmed by evidence, only harmed Ukraine,” Mr. Frolov said in a Facebook post.

ethanbond 4y ago
Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe. This is not an addressable concern to be honest. It’s like complaining about “the elites.” Just needs to be more specific. Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes? Sure, people lie, but then that obviously prompts the question of why haven’t all the other people who have been discussing Russian crimes been fired as well (since, as you’re implying, the crimes are fake?)
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  I'm saying that mainstream media has an agenda and is showing us propaganda. The mainstream media told us about dead babies in iraq, told us about WMDs and told us about nazis in ukraine ( https://i.imgur.com/mRAaOo0.jpg https://i.imgur.com/mRAaOo0.jpg ). Then the war started, and suddenly nazis are a conspiracy theory. It's a war, shit happens, media focuses on every dead civilian who died because of russians, and ignores all the dead civilians killed by american bombs, even at weddings in countries US is not even at war with, and it ignores all the dead civilians killed by ukranians, and it ignores all the dead civilians killed by israelis, etc.
  - llamaimperative 4y ago
    No one is saying the Nazis thing is “a conspiracy theory.” They’re saying they don’t care. There are neo-nazi elements in every country’s military, especially in Europe. That doesn’t mean Nazis are okay, nor does it mean all of those countries which have those elements are illegitimate and no longer have a right to self-defense. This point is never raised as an effort to get said Nazis out of combat/prevalence (in which case, sure, let’s do it). It’s just used to suggest we shouldn’t be supporting a democratic ally who got invaded by an autocratic warlord with imperial motives. There was a great article a few years ago about the huge Neo-Nazi element in the German military. It’s a huge problem. It’s bad. Does this mean we need to allow Russia to roll tanks into Berlin and put up a wall again? That’s why you’re getting dismissed so readily that you think it’s because people believe it’s a “conspiracy theory.” It’s a completely meaningless point. It has no bearing on the situation whatsoever.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      > No one is saying the Nazis thing is “a conspiracy theory.” They’re saying they don’t care. There are neo-nazi elements in every country’s military, especially in Europe These are not 'Neonazi elements'. They are actual Nazi brigades comprised of actual nazis who know their theory, who think that they are ubermensch and everyone else either should be enslaved or killed. They are not your average skinhead occasionally attacking immigrants. And yeah, the media is now past saying that Nazis are a conspiracy theory - that was until a few months ago. Because the Nazis were unrepentant in their Nazism, now the media is whitewashing them.

unity1001 4y ago

> Which individuals are those? Can you name them? Entire mainstream corporate media, foremost Angloamerican, current US State Dept., CIA, other 3-letter agency top officials, who were the mid-level foot soldiers implementing the lies, the ex top officials of those agencies, who are retired and who are now called 'the intelligence community' now, making 6 figures while working in private think tanks who manufacture and sell those lies, all the privately-owned satellite media with Angloamerican and local neoliberal shareholders, the entire 2003 shtick. > Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets They haven't been. BBC, Le Monde or Spiegel are not 'broad, different outlets'. They have been lying about everything along with their big daddy since a long time, including the nonexistent WMDs. There isn't anything as such in Indian, Indonesian, South American, Vietnamese, Egyptian or South African media. That's broad. Not the outlets who are owned by the same lot. The below article bluntly demonstrates the falsity of the existence of 'free media' in the capitalist West. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/five-reasons-why-we-don-t-have-free-and-independent-press-in-uk-and-what-we-can-do-about/ https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/five-reason... When your 6 figure salary depends on agreeing with the majority shareholder, you 'just' find reasons to do so.

ethanbond 4y ago
Al Jazeera: https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2022/6/21/inside-ukraine-war-crimes-investigations https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2022/6/21/inside-ukra... Buenos Aires Times: https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/amp/world/tougher-russia-sanctions-urged-over-ukraine-war-crimes-in-bucha.phtml https://www.batimes.com.ar/news/amp/world/tougher-russia-san... India at the UN condemned “war crimes in Bucha,” which they stopped short of accusing their strategic partner of, but obviously it wasn’t Ukrainian armed forces walking through Bucha executing civilians, right? Seems odd to lament the lack of truly free media in the west and then believe even half a word out of Russia’s mouth. Also FYI, “intelligence community” does not refer to retired government people on the media circuit. It refers to the actual intelligence agencies themselves.
- unity1001 4y ago
  Similar news were made, and similar condemnations were issued at the UN for a lot of other 'war crimes' that turned out to be nonexistent. > then believe even half a word out of Russia’s mouth. That's your own personal bias - 'either/or'. There are many other sources than 'Russia'. The world is not bipolar like in Anglosphere. > Also FYI, “intelligence community” does not refer to retired government people on the media circuit No. 'The intelligence community' as a term is used to include the retired personas now working in think tanks, in order to give them authority. Those people's papers from think tanks cant be referenced or cited as belonging to actual intelligence agencies after they retired. But if you say 'intelligence community', you can cite them all you want...