4 ms·

PayPal’s $2500 fine

36 points by AlchemistCamp 4y ago

natch 4y ago
Why does the title say flagged and why is there no vouch option for this flagged article? Paging dang for the second question.
- natch 4y ago
  Update: I guess I can't page dang, because I can't flag my own question. Anyone care to flag the above comment for me?
cft 4y ago
Preview of CBDC
natch 4y ago
Even content that is simply "objectionable" is included as sufficient cause in the terms.
bm3719 4y ago
I hate what PayPal has become and want nothing to do with them. But, what payment processor should I be using instead? Venmo is owned by PayPal. Zelle (and Venmo) use Plaid, which accesses your entire checking account history. What's left and viable?
- simfree 4y ago
  Zelle doesn't use Plaid if your credit union or bank builds in Zelle to your banking app.
- rvz 4y ago
  AlignPay. [0] [0] https://alignpay.com https://alignpay.com
mattbee 4y ago
Not sure about the US but penalty clauses aren't valid in UK law. You can only charge for what you might lose as a result of a breach of contract. I can't imagine how PayPal would incur $2500 costs as a result of someone buying a traveller's cheque.
- TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
  They will just take it from your account and then you can sue.
  - mattbee 4y ago
    I don't doubt it! Maybe I'm just old but it's been 20 years since I last trusted PayPal enough to leave a balance there :)
    - ectopod 4y ago
      So you give PayPal your bank details to withdraw your balance and they create a direct debit allowing them to plunder your bank account. This is how they operate in the UK anyway. PayPal is best avoided.
      - mattbee 4y ago
        DDs can always be reversed on the account holder's instruction. But yes, they're just the transfer service of last resort for me.
        ectopod 4y ago
        That's not true. Just two months ago a friend of mine disputed a DD with her bank and they refused to reverse it because she couldn't prove it was erroneous. I'm nearly sure the DD guarantee used to be stronger, but this part now reads: > If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society.
rhacker 4y ago
> depict ... discrimination of protected groups or of individuals or groups based on protected characteristics So like, if I purchase or rent various movies that depict racism, is Paypal going to fine me or amazon? For example https://www.amazon.com/Roots-The-Complete-Miniseries/dp/B000SLTU02 https://www.amazon.com/Roots-The-Complete-Miniseries/dp/B000...
- tag2103 4y ago
  They are going to fine you.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tag2103 4y ago
This is plainly illegal. Just because it is written in a contract doesn't mean that it will stand up in court. Paypal is opening itself up to major class action lawsuits over this. Liquidated damages are 1) extremely hard to prove and 2) Paypal has to prove that the damages incurred were actually $2500. AG's are going to have a field day with this one. https://www.griffithdavison.com/liquidated-damages-are-unenforceable-if-they-significantly-exceed-actual-damages/ https://www.griffithdavison.com/liquidated-damages-are-unenf...
rvz 4y ago
Do not use PayPal. They will arbitrarily shut your account down for any reason or explanation and can do this [0] to [1] anyone [2] and will never change. It will only get worse and your business, organization will end up dying in their hands if you go all in and depend on them. [0] https://twitter.com/flipper_zero/status/1567194641610465281 https://twitter.com/flipper_zero/status/1567194641610465281 [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/paypal-shuts-account-parents-group-campaigned-keep-schools-open/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/paypal-shuts-acc... [2] https://twitter.com/llsceptics/status/1567658400573448192 https://twitter.com/llsceptics/status/1567658400573448192
greenyoda 4y ago
Big discussion of PayPal's new policy a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33062320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33062320

36 points by AlchemistCamp 4y ago

Why does the title say flagged and why is there no vouch option for this flagged article? Paging dang for the second question.

natch 4y ago
Update: I guess I can't page dang, because I can't flag my own question. Anyone care to flag the above comment for me?

cft 4y ago

Preview of CBDC

natch 4y ago

Even content that is simply "objectionable" is included as sufficient cause in the terms.

bm3719 4y ago

I hate what PayPal has become and want nothing to do with them. But, what payment processor should I be using instead? Venmo is owned by PayPal. Zelle (and Venmo) use Plaid, which accesses your entire checking account history. What's left and viable?

simfree 4y ago
Zelle doesn't use Plaid if your credit union or bank builds in Zelle to your banking app.
rvz 4y ago
AlignPay. [0] [0] https://alignpay.com https://alignpay.com

mattbee 4y ago

Not sure about the US but penalty clauses aren't valid in UK law. You can only charge for what you might lose as a result of a breach of contract. I can't imagine how PayPal would incur $2500 costs as a result of someone buying a traveller's cheque.

TheLoafOfBread 4y ago
They will just take it from your account and then you can sue.
- mattbee 4y ago
  I don't doubt it! Maybe I'm just old but it's been 20 years since I last trusted PayPal enough to leave a balance there :)
  - ectopod 4y ago
    So you give PayPal your bank details to withdraw your balance and they create a direct debit allowing them to plunder your bank account. This is how they operate in the UK anyway. PayPal is best avoided.
    - mattbee 4y ago
      DDs can always be reversed on the account holder's instruction. But yes, they're just the transfer service of last resort for me.
      - ectopod 4y ago
        That's not true. Just two months ago a friend of mine disputed a DD with her bank and they refused to reverse it because she couldn't prove it was erroneous. I'm nearly sure the DD guarantee used to be stronger, but this part now reads: > If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit, by the organisation or your bank or building society, you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society.

rhacker 4y ago

> depict ... discrimination of protected groups or of individuals or groups based on protected characteristics So like, if I purchase or rent various movies that depict racism, is Paypal going to fine me or amazon? For example https://www.amazon.com/Roots-The-Complete-Miniseries/dp/B000SLTU02 https://www.amazon.com/Roots-The-Complete-Miniseries/dp/B000...

tag2103 4y ago
They are going to fine you.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

tag2103 4y ago

This is plainly illegal. Just because it is written in a contract doesn't mean that it will stand up in court. Paypal is opening itself up to major class action lawsuits over this. Liquidated damages are 1) extremely hard to prove and 2) Paypal has to prove that the damages incurred were actually $2500. AG's are going to have a field day with this one. https://www.griffithdavison.com/liquidated-damages-are-unenforceable-if-they-significantly-exceed-actual-damages/ https://www.griffithdavison.com/liquidated-damages-are-unenf...

rvz 4y ago

Do not use PayPal. They will arbitrarily shut your account down for any reason or explanation and can do this [0] to [1] anyone [2] and will never change. It will only get worse and your business, organization will end up dying in their hands if you go all in and depend on them. [0] https://twitter.com/flipper_zero/status/1567194641610465281 https://twitter.com/flipper_zero/status/1567194641610465281 [1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/paypal-shuts-account-parents-group-campaigned-keep-schools-open/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/09/21/paypal-shuts-acc... [2] https://twitter.com/llsceptics/status/1567658400573448192 https://twitter.com/llsceptics/status/1567658400573448192

greenyoda 4y ago

Big discussion of PayPal's new policy a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33062320 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33062320