4 ms·

Why? Because of FCC requirements around radio emissions?

runnerup 4y ago
Yeah the firmware can control the gain/broadcast power and exceed FCC limits. It can be open source still, but modifying it and running the modified version would invalidate the FCC certification and running non certified transmitters is generally frowned upon, often illegal, depending on precise circumstances.
- RF_Savage 4y ago
  Not even the running, but sale of. If it's too easy to modify then FCC will make it's sale illegal. Nobody wants that risk for their product.
  - mmis1000 4y ago
    Actually linux distro package repo have the list and the way to compile and load into system for obvious reasons. (Otherwise how do they compile the wifi drivers for themselves?) But no one is even going to say how to actually do it publicly because it is illegal to do (and probably also unsafe to do).
  - somat 4y ago
    And yet I can buy an sdr 400mhz-6ghz no problem? sigh, whatever, things are never fair. I will say the thing that pisses me off about thinkpads is their use of a whitelist to limit radios. their justification for this was the same. "it's certified as a radio antenna pair, the fcc will not let us let you install whatever radio you want" which is bullshit.
    - wildzzz 4y ago
      The price of an SDR is usually much more than a basic WiFi card so that's kind of the justification for why an SDR doesn't require an FCC license since it's for experimental purposes and that you probably have a good reason to be using one. If you use one outside what you are licensed to do so, then expect the FCC to come down on you. The FCC license for consumer goods is a way for a manufacter to say that the product conforms to the applicable rules so that the FCC doesn't have to worry about every end-user fucking around with the spectrum.
- AngryData 4y ago
  And yet I can buy a Microtik router that just has dropdown boxes for selecting options that would get the FCC to bust down my door. I think it is far more likely that they just don't want to expose what would then be obvious security vulnerabilities and/or built-in backdoors.
  - MrDOS 4y ago
    Doesn't Mikrotik have US-specific part numbers that have hardware locks around particular RF features?
    - dboreham 4y ago
      Yes, although there is probably old stock that lacks the locks, and getting hold of non-US versions of their product isn't impossible.
Nextgrid 4y ago
If that's the only problem, it shouldn't be too hard to limit either in hardware or have the HW run the user-provided firmware in some rudimentary VM that essentially passes through everything except the commands that set TX power; that way you maintain compliance without restricting people from running their own software. I think however it's just a matter of time before these restrictions become obsolete anyway: 1) I'm not sure whether the possibility of violating FCC regulations is something that will be used in practice by enough people to be a problem (you might get the odd one out here and there, but see the point below) 2) People who intentionally want to violate FCC regulations can already do so in plenty of ways - SDRs are becoming cheaper and cheaper and there's basically no way to prevent their import, so I'm not sure why they'll even bother with a wireless card if their aim is to truly cause mischief and shit on restricted radio bands.

Yeah the firmware can control the gain/broadcast power and exceed FCC limits. It can be open source still, but modifying it and running the modified version would invalidate the FCC certification and running non certified transmitters is generally frowned upon, often illegal, depending on precise circumstances.

RF_Savage 4y ago
Not even the running, but sale of. If it's too easy to modify then FCC will make it's sale illegal. Nobody wants that risk for their product.
- mmis1000 4y ago
  Actually linux distro package repo have the list and the way to compile and load into system for obvious reasons. (Otherwise how do they compile the wifi drivers for themselves?) But no one is even going to say how to actually do it publicly because it is illegal to do (and probably also unsafe to do).
- somat 4y ago
  And yet I can buy an sdr 400mhz-6ghz no problem? sigh, whatever, things are never fair. I will say the thing that pisses me off about thinkpads is their use of a whitelist to limit radios. their justification for this was the same. "it's certified as a radio antenna pair, the fcc will not let us let you install whatever radio you want" which is bullshit.
  - wildzzz 4y ago
    The price of an SDR is usually much more than a basic WiFi card so that's kind of the justification for why an SDR doesn't require an FCC license since it's for experimental purposes and that you probably have a good reason to be using one. If you use one outside what you are licensed to do so, then expect the FCC to come down on you. The FCC license for consumer goods is a way for a manufacter to say that the product conforms to the applicable rules so that the FCC doesn't have to worry about every end-user fucking around with the spectrum.
AngryData 4y ago
And yet I can buy a Microtik router that just has dropdown boxes for selecting options that would get the FCC to bust down my door. I think it is far more likely that they just don't want to expose what would then be obvious security vulnerabilities and/or built-in backdoors.
- MrDOS 4y ago
  Doesn't Mikrotik have US-specific part numbers that have hardware locks around particular RF features?
  - dboreham 4y ago
    Yes, although there is probably old stock that lacks the locks, and getting hold of non-US versions of their product isn't impossible.

Nextgrid 4y ago

If that's the only problem, it shouldn't be too hard to limit either in hardware or have the HW run the user-provided firmware in some rudimentary VM that essentially passes through everything except the commands that set TX power; that way you maintain compliance without restricting people from running their own software. I think however it's just a matter of time before these restrictions become obsolete anyway: 1) I'm not sure whether the possibility of violating FCC regulations is something that will be used in practice by enough people to be a problem (you might get the odd one out here and there, but see the point below) 2) People who intentionally want to violate FCC regulations can already do so in plenty of ways - SDRs are becoming cheaper and cheaper and there's basically no way to prevent their import, so I'm not sure why they'll even bother with a wireless card if their aim is to truly cause mischief and shit on restricted radio bands.