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In “The Rise and Fall of Classical Greece”, Joshua Ober describes the Mediterranean of the classical period as a zone of free exchange, unified by a common Gree
by pradn 4y ago
In “The Rise and Fall of Classical Greece”, Joshua Ober describes the Mediterranean of the classical period as a zone of free exchange, unified by a common Greek language, a common set of commodities (olive oil, wine, grain). This promoted competition, exchange, and specialization. Another one of these common commodities was mercenary labor. Ober describes them memorably as “violence specialists”, just as they were craftsmen of amphorae or viticulturists, haha. Good book to learn of the efflorescence of Classical Greece, where Athens boasted a 100 different kinds of craftsmen, where surplus wages were higher than any time until after the 1890s.
https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691140919/the-rise-and-fall-of-classical-greece https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691140919/th...
- andrepd 4y ago> where Athens boasted a 100 different kinds of craftsmen, where surplus wages were higher than any time until after the 1890s Wow, I find that incredibly hard to believe. Better wages for tradesmen than ever existed in Rome, Mughal empire, imperial China, 19th century Britain? I'm curious how he got that figure.
- nindalf 4y agoPerhaps they meant in Greece specifically?
- qwytw 4y agoEmpires might not be the places with the highest per capita productivity. E.g. the Netherlands had the highest (estimated) GDP per capita in Europe (and probably the world) between the early 1500's and 1800. Not sure about ancient Greece, I would assume that craftsmen wages in the Low Countries must have been significantly higher by the late middle ages.
- zhte415 4y agoThe Dutch East/West India companies were quite large and influential. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Empire https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Empire
- barry-cotter 4y agoHigher in Athens. After the Greek Golden Age Athens was never the capital of an empire again. No doubt there were times when surplus wages for craftsmen in Constantinople before the 1890s. But most of the history of agricultural societies is of population growing as fast or faster than productivity so most people lived on the verge of starvation. This only started to change permanently with modern economic growth kicking off ~1870. NW Europe was the first region of the world to end famine and the last one was in the 1840s. Most of the history of humanity is of poverty. Thankfully we now have the social technology, capitalism, to end that, even if it is unevenly distributed.
- stevesimmons 4y agoA very good book on this is "Farewell to Alms: A Brief Economic History of the World" by Gregory Clark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Farewell_to_Alms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Farewell_to_Alms
- andrepd 4y agoWell part of the reason that famines were reduced in parts of Europe was precisely that capitalism/imperialism exported misery abroad, sometimes across the world, sometimes next door (see the Irish Famine). Those "NW Europe" countries you refer were the metropoles of empires or otherwise were at the top of the food chain of the economic system. It is natural they they were the first tk benefit from industrial-age exponential growth in productivity. It's funny that you say "it's just unevenly distributed", as if that wasn't a fundamental feature of capitalism ;) Anyway, I would pin it rather on technological developments, than exactly the system of capitalism.
- barry-cotter 4y agoMisery is the natural condition of man. Its presence does not need to be explained but its absence. Uneven distribution is a natural feature of economic systems as a subset of ecological systems. Communism can’t make economies of scale or agglomeration effects not exist by fiat. Continued economic growth is due to technological developments, which are due to capitalism. The joint stock company and industrial research lab led to modern economic growth.
- tomcam 4y ago> “violence specialists” Now changing all of my online profiles
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- inglor_cz 4y agoIt reminds me of the Wagner Group motto: "Our business is death and business is going well." They are Russian mercenaries, so a bit of cynicism fits them. The Ukrainian war may prove too literal for Wagner Group, though. They are deployed in the worst locations and they had so many KIAs that they are now recruiting in prisons.
- tomcam 4y agowtf. I assumed this was a reference to a TV show that I didn't get. No, they appear to be the real thing?!: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Group
- inglor_cz 4y agoThey are a real thing and quite infamous.
- spywaregorilla 4y agoWell they didn't specify whose deaths
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]