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No, wife is a doctor and she faced this many times. Doctors in such places are never working there for the money, if you consider them as such you are just proj

No, wife is a doctor and she faced this many times. Doctors in such places are never working there for the money, if you consider them as such you are just projecting your morals on other people. Its almost always the family - they just can't let go or have some christian type of excuse. Thus their moral weakness causes tremendous amount of suffering of their closest ones. And doctors have to obey family wishes, even if they personally wouldn't chose to, which is true for most doctors in such situations. I've been been recently an unfortunate witness to one of the cases when its not closest family - grandmother of my wife was nearing her end, suffering tremendously. Her daughter, my mother in law who is a nurse and teaches nursing too and knows all staff of their hospital very well was looking for some strong painkillers ie morphine to help her with final sufferings, which went on about for a week. As her mom didn't want to die in hospital, nobody was willing to sign receipt, not even close personal friends (mind you we don't have opioids crisis in the country, so its not controversial to give them to 92 year old dying). Some folks from closer family or friends even said its fine to suffer before the end, to shorten/skip purgatory, or some similar religious bullshit. One of those times when I hated christianity and its believers more than ever, you know those. As they say, you will know true friends when you need them the most. Switzerland is, as usually quite ahead on this - assisted suicide. Folks from all over the world come here to die peacefully, in full control. Ie Alain Delon is going through the process of getting this done right now. It doesn't cover all possible situations, but it gives certain control and dignity in times where most people have none left. Me personally, if facing such a situation, would do grand farewell gathering with all, sign my will and go somewhere in the nature to die quietly, ie jump from some cliff or overdose on heroin (first and last dose, but they say its quite an experience).

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
<<As her mom didn't want to die in hospital, nobody was willing to sign receipt, not even close personal friends (mind you we don't have opioids crisis in the country, so its not controversial to give them to 92 year old dying). Some folks from closer family or friends even said its fine to suffer before the end, to shorten/skip purgatory, or some similar religious bullshit. One of those times when I hated christianity and its believers more than ever, I am not a religious person by anyone's description, but the choice here appears to be that of lesser evil. Final wish of a dying person ( along with their ability to govern their life ) here being that she did not want to die in a hospital. Wouldn't 'helping' her die break that wish? And more importantly, what if the dying person is ok with suffering? <<Thus their moral weakness It feels like the sentence is emotionally loaded. Is it a moral weakness to follow one's moral compass? I hear what you are saying, but you may want to consider that they do not want to make that decision, because their moral compass marks it as killing someone ( including some earthly jurisdictions ).
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Sorry if I didn't describe it properly, english is not my native language. Giving of opium wouldn't anyhow shorten her lifespan, which was already on a fast spiral down with various organs shutting down, while causing huge amount of continuous pain, and there was nothing current medicine could do to fix it. Her being in hospital vs being at home was just decision to not die surrounded by nurses and doctors but by family, which is completely understandable and I would opt for it too in same situation. The fact that even closest folks refused to ease suffering while shielding themselves with at-best dubious christianity-based moral stance of easing/skipping purgatory is just beyond my comprehension. And yes I truly consider it their moral weakness and failure. Its not about killing in any way, but sedating enough to have their last moments filled with sanity and focus on family, and not screams of huge pain. > And more importantly, what if the dying person is ok with suffering? Now this part is complete bullshit, of course she didn't want to suffer, she had brighter moments when she was begging for painkillers. I presume you were never in situation where you suffered huge amount of pain continuously for at least many hours. I experienced it once, and it completely utterly breaks you down mentally. You are willing to do basically anything to make it stop - there is a reason why it is/was used so much to get any intel, at one point everybody breaks, its so overwhelming that people make up anything to make it stop. I hope its a bit more clear, it was a complex situation to describe fully in few sentences.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Maybe I misread the post above, but it sounds like no one would take her out of the hospital to die at home. I agree that often times it is a matter of moral weakness. If the family knows what the wishes of the dying are, but are scared or unwilling to carry them out, that is a moral failing. I know many people who have gone through this, and the family often regrets their choices and weaknesses after the death. They wish that they could have been stronger and tell the doctors that they can stop treating the patient.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    It is possible I misread it. If so, I would agree with your interpretation. There is a question of whether dying wish outweighs one's own moral compass ( and therefore is a moral failing ), but I accept your point especially if it is motivated by fear rather than consideration of one's principles ( I was never in that position, and hope I will never be, where I had to make that call ).

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

<<As her mom didn't want to die in hospital, nobody was willing to sign receipt, not even close personal friends (mind you we don't have opioids crisis in the country, so its not controversial to give them to 92 year old dying). Some folks from closer family or friends even said its fine to suffer before the end, to shorten/skip purgatory, or some similar religious bullshit. One of those times when I hated christianity and its believers more than ever, I am not a religious person by anyone's description, but the choice here appears to be that of lesser evil. Final wish of a dying person ( along with their ability to govern their life ) here being that she did not want to die in a hospital. Wouldn't 'helping' her die break that wish? And more importantly, what if the dying person is ok with suffering? <<Thus their moral weakness It feels like the sentence is emotionally loaded. Is it a moral weakness to follow one's moral compass? I hear what you are saying, but you may want to consider that they do not want to make that decision, because their moral compass marks it as killing someone ( including some earthly jurisdictions ).

saiya-jin 4y ago
Sorry if I didn't describe it properly, english is not my native language. Giving of opium wouldn't anyhow shorten her lifespan, which was already on a fast spiral down with various organs shutting down, while causing huge amount of continuous pain, and there was nothing current medicine could do to fix it. Her being in hospital vs being at home was just decision to not die surrounded by nurses and doctors but by family, which is completely understandable and I would opt for it too in same situation. The fact that even closest folks refused to ease suffering while shielding themselves with at-best dubious christianity-based moral stance of easing/skipping purgatory is just beyond my comprehension. And yes I truly consider it their moral weakness and failure. Its not about killing in any way, but sedating enough to have their last moments filled with sanity and focus on family, and not screams of huge pain. > And more importantly, what if the dying person is ok with suffering? Now this part is complete bullshit, of course she didn't want to suffer, she had brighter moments when she was begging for painkillers. I presume you were never in situation where you suffered huge amount of pain continuously for at least many hours. I experienced it once, and it completely utterly breaks you down mentally. You are willing to do basically anything to make it stop - there is a reason why it is/was used so much to get any intel, at one point everybody breaks, its so overwhelming that people make up anything to make it stop. I hope its a bit more clear, it was a complex situation to describe fully in few sentences.
s1artibartfast 4y ago
Maybe I misread the post above, but it sounds like no one would take her out of the hospital to die at home. I agree that often times it is a matter of moral weakness. If the family knows what the wishes of the dying are, but are scared or unwilling to carry them out, that is a moral failing. I know many people who have gone through this, and the family often regrets their choices and weaknesses after the death. They wish that they could have been stronger and tell the doctors that they can stop treating the patient.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  It is possible I misread it. If so, I would agree with your interpretation. There is a question of whether dying wish outweighs one's own moral compass ( and therefore is a moral failing ), but I accept your point especially if it is motivated by fear rather than consideration of one's principles ( I was never in that position, and hope I will never be, where I had to make that call ).