3 ms·

Your first point implies it’s a situation of giving up and dying vs. trying not to die. But it ignores the view that that act of trying not to die might make t

Your first point implies it’s a situation of giving up and dying vs. trying not to die. But it ignores the view that that act of trying not to die might make the remainder of your life much worse.

Animatronio 4y ago
There's also the chance that your life could be saved and your health restored, TBF.
- oneoff786 4y ago
  Sure. But we ought not characterize doctors as “giving up” if they come to a conclusion that it would be better for the patient to pursue a path that shortens expected life span but increases quality life span.
  - wpietri 4y ago
    That is a conclusion that doctors should certainly express if it is a well-informed and well-considered one. Which is what our neuro-ongologist did at the right time. But we had one doctor give us the "time to let go" speech because he had confused a "grade 4" astrocytoma with a generic "stage 4" cancer. He wasn't my mom's oncologist. He wasn't an ongologist at all. He was an arrogant idiot. And then there were the doctors, also not oncologists and who had not spoken with my mom about her preferences, who did not see the point in properly treating secondary symptoms in somebody who was trying for the extra months her oncologist thought was possible. Those doctors can also go fuck themselves. It is those doctors that I am thinking of when I talk about under-treatment.
conductr 4y ago
I think it’s a matter of ability to fight. At some age we all lose that ability and any fight is likely going to be brutally painful and exhausting, which just leads to more suffering. If you get cancer and have the ability to fight, definitely do your own homework on the treatment options and what the survive-ability and lifestyle looks like. My wife had cancer in early 30s and she fought and thrived. We found the key was finding younger doctors that were more up to date on these things. Not all doctors are equal. Many doctors treat tumors and cancers how they were taught in medical school, which may have been 30+ years ago. Others keep up with the profession and advancements. We found especially with surgeons the techniques the younger folks used were advantageous. Other doctors would actually recommend doctors saying stuff like “he’s young but just studied this new technique and has 2 years of practice, he’s a rising star.” So I suppose this is a known phenomenon.

Your first point implies it’s a situation of giving up and dying vs. trying not to die. But it ignores the view that that act of trying not to die might make the remainder of your life much worse.

Animatronio 4y ago

There's also the chance that your life could be saved and your health restored, TBF.

oneoff786 4y ago
Sure. But we ought not characterize doctors as “giving up” if they come to a conclusion that it would be better for the patient to pursue a path that shortens expected life span but increases quality life span.
- wpietri 4y ago
  That is a conclusion that doctors should certainly express if it is a well-informed and well-considered one. Which is what our neuro-ongologist did at the right time. But we had one doctor give us the "time to let go" speech because he had confused a "grade 4" astrocytoma with a generic "stage 4" cancer. He wasn't my mom's oncologist. He wasn't an ongologist at all. He was an arrogant idiot. And then there were the doctors, also not oncologists and who had not spoken with my mom about her preferences, who did not see the point in properly treating secondary symptoms in somebody who was trying for the extra months her oncologist thought was possible. Those doctors can also go fuck themselves. It is those doctors that I am thinking of when I talk about under-treatment.

conductr 4y ago

I think it’s a matter of ability to fight. At some age we all lose that ability and any fight is likely going to be brutally painful and exhausting, which just leads to more suffering. If you get cancer and have the ability to fight, definitely do your own homework on the treatment options and what the survive-ability and lifestyle looks like. My wife had cancer in early 30s and she fought and thrived. We found the key was finding younger doctors that were more up to date on these things. Not all doctors are equal. Many doctors treat tumors and cancers how they were taught in medical school, which may have been 30+ years ago. Others keep up with the profession and advancements. We found especially with surgeons the techniques the younger folks used were advantageous. Other doctors would actually recommend doctors saying stuff like “he’s young but just studied this new technique and has 2 years of practice, he’s a rising star.” So I suppose this is a known phenomenon.