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> If you don't see a difference between a war where soldiers that rape and pillage are criminals in their own country All of those are claims that are made by

> If you don't see a difference between a war where soldiers that rape and pillage are criminals in their own country All of those are claims that are made by the very ones who lied 8 years about nonexistent WMDs. Moreover, the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up was fired by the Ukrainian government because even the govt. found it way too extreme. She is now busy backstabbing her former employers by saying that "They made me lie that way"...

Roark66 4y ago
What claims? I'm in a country where 4 million refugees came(domestic population of 36mln). When they talk of the atrocities, when they show you videos of their own killed, raped/tortured neighbors they find in their homes, when they show you videos taken on their cellphones of piles of naked female bodies drenched in gas, with few tires thrown on top and lit on Russian forces escape routes literaly right after they left. Videos they took while in panic mode, fight g with themselves wanting to leave this horrible scenes ASAP, but they make those videos because they want the world to see the truth. Then when you see videos taken of things found by incoming soldiers. Holes in the ground with hundreds of civilian people with their hands tied and bullet in the back of their head. I work with AI I know how deep fakes look like. Those are not deep fakes. Those are all cellphone videos taken from hand, with audio, showing everything including the person taking it and local landmarks. Then you have one of the most notorious units where individual torturers and tormentors identified by name, this unit gets decorated by Putin. At the same time you have Russian gov-controlled media openly calling for killing every Ukrainian and every commentary cheering them. When all this happens and some people say "this is same lies as iraqi wmd". They are either trolls, shills or they live life so sheltered that they never had to discover what Russian soldiers do in areas they enter. Here in Poland we had Russians here few times at war time and no one has to convince us what they do. I'm old enough to have had WW2 survives come to my primary school and give us first hand accounts. Back then those that escaped concentration camps and PL in general were telling people in the West what was going on. They too were disbelieved. BTW, this is not the "first time in modern time" they do it. They did the same thing in Chechnya and Syria. The difference is that today everyone has a high quality video recorder in their pocket and communication with the entire world so all their atrocities are plain to see to everyone.
ethanbond 4y ago
> All of those are claims that are made by the very ones who lied 8 years about nonexistent WMDs. Which individuals are those? Can you name them? Re “the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up,” I’d also like a name for that. Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets, and even Russian media is clamoring that it’s not brutal enough.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  > Which individuals are those? Can you name them? All the mainstream media said iraq has WMDs... it was basically on every european and american tv channel in preparation for the war. Once before that, we heard that iraqi soldiers killed babies... that was a "fun" one too... Even tony blair admited it (the WMDs) was a lie: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-tony-blair-was-not-straight-with-the-nation-over-iraq-war https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-ton... The same media also reported of the "Ghost of kiyev".. so yeah... surely we must believe them "now". > Re “the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up,” I’d also like a name for that. Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets, and even Russian media is clamoring that it’s not brutal enough. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-31/card/ukraine-s-parliament-dismisses-human-rights-chief-1kQWT7i0GHXyeqh6spRe https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-... > Lawmaker Pavlo Frolov said Ms. Denisova was also accused of making insensitive and unverifiable statements about alleged Russian sex crimes and spending too much time in Western Europe during the invasion. > “The unclear focus of the Ombudsman's media work on the numerous details of ‘sexual crimes committed in an unnatural way’ and ‘rape of children’ in the occupied territories that could not be confirmed by evidence, only harmed Ukraine,” Mr. Frolov said in a Facebook post.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe. This is not an addressable concern to be honest. It’s like complaining about “the elites.” Just needs to be more specific. Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes? Sure, people lie, but then that obviously prompts the question of why haven’t all the other people who have been discussing Russian crimes been fired as well (since, as you’re implying, the crimes are fake?)

Roark66 4y ago

What claims? I'm in a country where 4 million refugees came(domestic population of 36mln). When they talk of the atrocities, when they show you videos of their own killed, raped/tortured neighbors they find in their homes, when they show you videos taken on their cellphones of piles of naked female bodies drenched in gas, with few tires thrown on top and lit on Russian forces escape routes literaly right after they left. Videos they took while in panic mode, fight g with themselves wanting to leave this horrible scenes ASAP, but they make those videos because they want the world to see the truth. Then when you see videos taken of things found by incoming soldiers. Holes in the ground with hundreds of civilian people with their hands tied and bullet in the back of their head. I work with AI I know how deep fakes look like. Those are not deep fakes. Those are all cellphone videos taken from hand, with audio, showing everything including the person taking it and local landmarks. Then you have one of the most notorious units where individual torturers and tormentors identified by name, this unit gets decorated by Putin. At the same time you have Russian gov-controlled media openly calling for killing every Ukrainian and every commentary cheering them. When all this happens and some people say "this is same lies as iraqi wmd". They are either trolls, shills or they live life so sheltered that they never had to discover what Russian soldiers do in areas they enter. Here in Poland we had Russians here few times at war time and no one has to convince us what they do. I'm old enough to have had WW2 survives come to my primary school and give us first hand accounts. Back then those that escaped concentration camps and PL in general were telling people in the West what was going on. They too were disbelieved. BTW, this is not the "first time in modern time" they do it. They did the same thing in Chechnya and Syria. The difference is that today everyone has a high quality video recorder in their pocket and communication with the entire world so all their atrocities are plain to see to everyone.

ethanbond 4y ago

> All of those are claims that are made by the very ones who lied 8 years about nonexistent WMDs. Which individuals are those? Can you name them? Re “the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up,” I’d also like a name for that. Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets, and even Russian media is clamoring that it’s not brutal enough.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
> Which individuals are those? Can you name them? All the mainstream media said iraq has WMDs... it was basically on every european and american tv channel in preparation for the war. Once before that, we heard that iraqi soldiers killed babies... that was a "fun" one too... Even tony blair admited it (the WMDs) was a lie: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-tony-blair-was-not-straight-with-the-nation-over-iraq-war https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/06/chilcot-ton... The same media also reported of the "Ghost of kiyev".. so yeah... surely we must believe them "now". > Re “the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up,” I’d also like a name for that. Russian atrocities have been reported broadly across many outlets, and even Russian media is clamoring that it’s not brutal enough. https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-31/card/ukraine-s-parliament-dismisses-human-rights-chief-1kQWT7i0GHXyeqh6spRe https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-... > Lawmaker Pavlo Frolov said Ms. Denisova was also accused of making insensitive and unverifiable statements about alleged Russian sex crimes and spending too much time in Western Europe during the invasion. > “The unclear focus of the Ombudsman's media work on the numerous details of ‘sexual crimes committed in an unnatural way’ and ‘rape of children’ in the occupied territories that could not be confirmed by evidence, only harmed Ukraine,” Mr. Frolov said in a Facebook post.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Ah yes the spooky “mainstream media” which seems always to somehow say the opposite of what you believe. This is not an addressable concern to be honest. It’s like complaining about “the elites.” Just needs to be more specific. Also your evidence of Ukraine lying about war crimes is the firing of a woman who lied about war crimes? Sure, people lie, but then that obviously prompts the question of why haven’t all the other people who have been discussing Russian crimes been fired as well (since, as you’re implying, the crimes are fake?)