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Euphoria of the 60s? In the US at least, I’d suggest that too was a distraction from the horror of what was going on at that time. You know, your friends gettin

Euphoria of the 60s? In the US at least, I’d suggest that too was a distraction from the horror of what was going on at that time. You know, your friends getting taken to a jungle halfway across the world to come back with no legs, broken psyches, and a society that had turned its back on them.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago
It's not like things changed after... iraq, iraq 2, afghanistan, syria and many others... dead kids from all over US and europe losing their lives for some rich people to get richer. Somehow occupying sovereign countries and killing kids is a bad thing only when putin does it.
- nequo 4y ago
  > It's not like things changed after... iraq, iraq 2, afghanistan, syria and many others... Conscription is a huge difference. Hundreds of thousands were sent to Vietnam against their will. > Somehow occupying sovereign countries and killing kids is a bad thing only when putin does it. Ugh this both sideism.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    I see it as less “both sideism” and more “maybe we can be the baddies too”.
    - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
      We are the baddies. I live in a small EU country, and have soldiers in syria now. We could atleast have pulled them back home, before pointing a finger at putin, but we didn't even do that (and they'd all fit in a minibus). We're currently destroying our own economies because someone else is doing something that we've been doing for years now. Technically we deserve being cold and maybe some kind of a revolution, because we've deserved it for destroying countries all around the world, but I'd prefer things to stop and normalize before we all freeze to death here.
      - nequo 4y ago
        Especially as someone from a small EU country, this seems completely different to me, unless living in a Putin puppet state is an acceptable alternative to you. Invading other countries is bad (including when the EU does it). Invading and massacring Ukraine is bad. Both can be true at the same time. And only because we haven’t eliminated the first doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fight the second.
        ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        But we don't even plan to eliminate the first. How can we point the finger at putin, if we're doing the same as him? We're literally standing on a pile of middle-eastern bodies (let's not forget why the middle eastern crisis even started), and screaming "...but putin!". Look at the french for example... they have literally their embassies burning now, because people want their army out of their sovereign country, and the media sits quiet, mentioning maybe "some protests". The EU is threathening Hungary for wanting to buy russian gas, while sitting quiet about France. Why should putin have to stop, if we don't? And if we care for peoples lives and sovereign countries, why don't we care about the ones we're destroying right now?
      - ethanbond 4y ago
        Did your country just send soldiers to Syria when it was thriving independent state? Or was it when there was a brutal civil war and the state used chemical weapons against civilian populations?
        ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        Yeah, same as iraq had wmds and afghanistan had to be attacked because some saudis were bad pilots. Yes, my country had soldiers in all the mentioned countries too.
        ethanbond 4y ago
        Ooof. It’s pretty clear you’re not interested in a sincere conversation. Have a good weekend!
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    And the ones sent to iraq wanted to be there... and die there? Or to afghanistan? Can't afford US college? Go to army! Can't afford a doctor? Army will fix you up! Join, a few peaceful years at a few bases, you'll have a college degree, you'll make mama proud, just sign here, you're 18 already, you can't buy beer yet, but you can join the army! Add some "fighting for US freedom" propaganda, and end up as a homeless disabled veteran after the war.
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      All of that is terrible and it’s still not conscription.
  - Roark66 4y ago
    >Somehow occupying sovereign countries and killing kids is a bad thing only when putin does it. If you don't see a difference between a war where soldiers that rape and pillage are criminals in their own country, where questionable decisions that caused civilian suffering are widely condemned, a war that saw very large domestic movement against it as it unfolded and another one where rape, torture, slavery, ethnic genocide and killing/exploiting of innocent people is an openly admitted state policy with the worst offenders getting decorated for it, with the majority of the population not only in support, but craving blood, more torture and use of nuclear weapons. I have no words to convince you. I can only hope that you will reflect on this in future.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      > If you don't see a difference between a war where soldiers that rape and pillage are criminals in their own country All of those are claims that are made by the very ones who lied 8 years about nonexistent WMDs. Moreover, the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up was fired by the Ukrainian government because even the govt. found it way too extreme. She is now busy backstabbing her former employers by saying that "They made me lie that way"...
      - Roark66 4y ago
        What claims? I'm in a country where 4 million refugees came(domestic population of 36mln). When they talk of the atrocities, when they show you videos of their own killed, raped/tortured neighbors they find in their homes, when they show you videos taken on their cellphones of piles of naked female bodies drenched in gas, with few tires thrown on top and lit on Russian forces escape routes literaly right after they left. Videos they took while in panic mode, fight g with themselves wanting to leave this horrible scenes ASAP, but they make those videos because they want the world to see the truth. Then when you see videos taken of things found by incoming soldiers. Holes in the ground with hundreds of civilian people with their hands tied and bullet in the back of their head. I work with AI I know how deep fakes look like. Those are not deep fakes. Those are all cellphone videos taken from hand, with audio, showing everything including the person taking it and local landmarks. Then you have one of the most notorious units where individual torturers and tormentors identified by name, this unit gets decorated by Putin. At the same time you have Russian gov-controlled media openly calling for killing every Ukrainian and every commentary cheering them. When all this happens and some people say "this is same lies as iraqi wmd". They are either trolls, shills or they live life so sheltered that they never had to discover what Russian soldiers do in areas they enter. Here in Poland we had Russians here few times at war time and no one has to convince us what they do. I'm old enough to have had WW2 survives come to my primary school and give us first hand accounts. Back then those that escaped concentration camps and PL in general were telling people in the West what was going on. They too were disbelieved. BTW, this is not the "first time in modern time" they do it. They did the same thing in Chechnya and Syria. The difference is that today everyone has a high quality video recorder in their pocket and communication with the entire world so all their atrocities are plain to see to everyone.
- RestlessMind 4y ago
  > a bad thing only when putin does it. Here is a key difference between Russia and the US/Europe. When Iraq war is bad, thousands of people can march across American/European cities without a fear of getting jailed. People can run for elections hammering their opponents on voting for a monstrous war (Obama trounced Hillary and others) and win. And that makes a difference (Syria - US/Europe didn't go there; in fact, the world afterwards wished that the US had gone to fight against Assad to prevent further tragedies). Vs what is happening in Russia? I heard demonstrators and political opponents are jailed. Even an old lady, who survived the siege of Leningrad and dared protest against Putin, was taken away by the police. That is what makes US regime much much better than Putin's.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    Yes, protestng when it's irrelevant for the government... closing peoples bank accounts when it's not (canadian truckers).
    - RestlessMind 4y ago
      Closing bank accounts is bad. Jailing an old woman in her 80's? That's whole another level. No government is perfect but there are shades of bad and you can see for yourself where a government falls on that spectrum.
i386 4y ago
The American Way.
moomin 4y ago
This is the correct take. Hippies, Flower Power, Love-Ins and so on cannot be properly understood without the context of the Vietnam War and the draft.
- specialist 4y ago
  Yes and: The counter culture was a fraction of the population. The outsized attention given to "hippies" is that era's version of nutpicking. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nutpicking https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nutpicking The dominate culture's reaction to "hippies" (pro civil rights, antiwar, nonconformism, antimaterialism) beget a hard turn to the right. One cogent example is Reagan's meteoric political rise by demonizing a bunch of kids daring to exercise their right to free speech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Movement#1966–1970 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Movement#1966–1970 As with all protests, "hippie" culture was coopted and commercialized. Enabling another generation of conformists to LARP as rebels, for a price. This time via appropriated totems like blue jeans and stadium rock. Another predictable backlash, where the agitators are mocked and while their cultural stylings are assimilated. Lather, rinse, repeat.

ajsnigrutin 4y ago

It's not like things changed after... iraq, iraq 2, afghanistan, syria and many others... dead kids from all over US and europe losing their lives for some rich people to get richer. Somehow occupying sovereign countries and killing kids is a bad thing only when putin does it.

nequo 4y ago
> It's not like things changed after... iraq, iraq 2, afghanistan, syria and many others... Conscription is a huge difference. Hundreds of thousands were sent to Vietnam against their will. > Somehow occupying sovereign countries and killing kids is a bad thing only when putin does it. Ugh this both sideism.
- bombcar 4y ago
  I see it as less “both sideism” and more “maybe we can be the baddies too”.
  - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
    We are the baddies. I live in a small EU country, and have soldiers in syria now. We could atleast have pulled them back home, before pointing a finger at putin, but we didn't even do that (and they'd all fit in a minibus). We're currently destroying our own economies because someone else is doing something that we've been doing for years now. Technically we deserve being cold and maybe some kind of a revolution, because we've deserved it for destroying countries all around the world, but I'd prefer things to stop and normalize before we all freeze to death here.
    - nequo 4y ago
      Especially as someone from a small EU country, this seems completely different to me, unless living in a Putin puppet state is an acceptable alternative to you. Invading other countries is bad (including when the EU does it). Invading and massacring Ukraine is bad. Both can be true at the same time. And only because we haven’t eliminated the first doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fight the second.
      - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        But we don't even plan to eliminate the first. How can we point the finger at putin, if we're doing the same as him? We're literally standing on a pile of middle-eastern bodies (let's not forget why the middle eastern crisis even started), and screaming "...but putin!". Look at the french for example... they have literally their embassies burning now, because people want their army out of their sovereign country, and the media sits quiet, mentioning maybe "some protests". The EU is threathening Hungary for wanting to buy russian gas, while sitting quiet about France. Why should putin have to stop, if we don't? And if we care for peoples lives and sovereign countries, why don't we care about the ones we're destroying right now?
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      Did your country just send soldiers to Syria when it was thriving independent state? Or was it when there was a brutal civil war and the state used chemical weapons against civilian populations?
      - ajsnigrutin 4y ago
        Yeah, same as iraq had wmds and afghanistan had to be attacked because some saudis were bad pilots. Yes, my country had soldiers in all the mentioned countries too.
        ethanbond 4y ago
        Ooof. It’s pretty clear you’re not interested in a sincere conversation. Have a good weekend!
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  And the ones sent to iraq wanted to be there... and die there? Or to afghanistan? Can't afford US college? Go to army! Can't afford a doctor? Army will fix you up! Join, a few peaceful years at a few bases, you'll have a college degree, you'll make mama proud, just sign here, you're 18 already, you can't buy beer yet, but you can join the army! Add some "fighting for US freedom" propaganda, and end up as a homeless disabled veteran after the war.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    All of that is terrible and it’s still not conscription.
- Roark66 4y ago
  >Somehow occupying sovereign countries and killing kids is a bad thing only when putin does it. If you don't see a difference between a war where soldiers that rape and pillage are criminals in their own country, where questionable decisions that caused civilian suffering are widely condemned, a war that saw very large domestic movement against it as it unfolded and another one where rape, torture, slavery, ethnic genocide and killing/exploiting of innocent people is an openly admitted state policy with the worst offenders getting decorated for it, with the majority of the population not only in support, but craving blood, more torture and use of nuclear weapons. I have no words to convince you. I can only hope that you will reflect on this in future.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    > If you don't see a difference between a war where soldiers that rape and pillage are criminals in their own country All of those are claims that are made by the very ones who lied 8 years about nonexistent WMDs. Moreover, the Ukrainian minister who made those lies up was fired by the Ukrainian government because even the govt. found it way too extreme. She is now busy backstabbing her former employers by saying that "They made me lie that way"...
    - Roark66 4y ago
      What claims? I'm in a country where 4 million refugees came(domestic population of 36mln). When they talk of the atrocities, when they show you videos of their own killed, raped/tortured neighbors they find in their homes, when they show you videos taken on their cellphones of piles of naked female bodies drenched in gas, with few tires thrown on top and lit on Russian forces escape routes literaly right after they left. Videos they took while in panic mode, fight g with themselves wanting to leave this horrible scenes ASAP, but they make those videos because they want the world to see the truth. Then when you see videos taken of things found by incoming soldiers. Holes in the ground with hundreds of civilian people with their hands tied and bullet in the back of their head. I work with AI I know how deep fakes look like. Those are not deep fakes. Those are all cellphone videos taken from hand, with audio, showing everything including the person taking it and local landmarks. Then you have one of the most notorious units where individual torturers and tormentors identified by name, this unit gets decorated by Putin. At the same time you have Russian gov-controlled media openly calling for killing every Ukrainian and every commentary cheering them. When all this happens and some people say "this is same lies as iraqi wmd". They are either trolls, shills or they live life so sheltered that they never had to discover what Russian soldiers do in areas they enter. Here in Poland we had Russians here few times at war time and no one has to convince us what they do. I'm old enough to have had WW2 survives come to my primary school and give us first hand accounts. Back then those that escaped concentration camps and PL in general were telling people in the West what was going on. They too were disbelieved. BTW, this is not the "first time in modern time" they do it. They did the same thing in Chechnya and Syria. The difference is that today everyone has a high quality video recorder in their pocket and communication with the entire world so all their atrocities are plain to see to everyone.
RestlessMind 4y ago
> a bad thing only when putin does it. Here is a key difference between Russia and the US/Europe. When Iraq war is bad, thousands of people can march across American/European cities without a fear of getting jailed. People can run for elections hammering their opponents on voting for a monstrous war (Obama trounced Hillary and others) and win. And that makes a difference (Syria - US/Europe didn't go there; in fact, the world afterwards wished that the US had gone to fight against Assad to prevent further tragedies). Vs what is happening in Russia? I heard demonstrators and political opponents are jailed. Even an old lady, who survived the siege of Leningrad and dared protest against Putin, was taken away by the police. That is what makes US regime much much better than Putin's.
- ajsnigrutin 4y ago
  Yes, protestng when it's irrelevant for the government... closing peoples bank accounts when it's not (canadian truckers).
  - RestlessMind 4y ago
    Closing bank accounts is bad. Jailing an old woman in her 80's? That's whole another level. No government is perfect but there are shades of bad and you can see for yourself where a government falls on that spectrum.

i386 4y ago

The American Way.

moomin 4y ago

This is the correct take. Hippies, Flower Power, Love-Ins and so on cannot be properly understood without the context of the Vietnam War and the draft.

specialist 4y ago
Yes and: The counter culture was a fraction of the population. The outsized attention given to "hippies" is that era's version of nutpicking. https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nutpicking https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nutpicking The dominate culture's reaction to "hippies" (pro civil rights, antiwar, nonconformism, antimaterialism) beget a hard turn to the right. One cogent example is Reagan's meteoric political rise by demonizing a bunch of kids daring to exercise their right to free speech. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Movement#1966–1970 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Movement#1966–1970 As with all protests, "hippie" culture was coopted and commercialized. Enabling another generation of conformists to LARP as rebels, for a price. This time via appropriated totems like blue jeans and stadium rock. Another predictable backlash, where the agitators are mocked and while their cultural stylings are assimilated. Lather, rinse, repeat.