4 ms·

I'm wondering if the decline after the mid-2000s isn't due to computers so much as the internet. Once somebody has an internet-connected computer at their desk

by rrwo 4y ago

I'm wondering if the decline after the mid-2000s isn't due to computers so much as the internet. Once somebody has an internet-connected computer at their desk, they have more distractions (from internal applications like email to external ones like Facebook or reading news online). They also have more kinds of problems that can interrupt their work (server failure, network problems, viruses).

mvdwoord 4y ago
They can also use the internet to quickly look up things, ask questions to a giant group of experts, not likely to be available in-company. As well as the countless other productivity boosting resources made available through it.
- bratbag 4y ago
  They can, but the question is if the two on balance produce a net negative across the population as a whole.
simmerup 4y ago
I’m more tempted to think the computers made them more productive and took away the complexity, allowing employers could pay them less. Productivity is just a measure in how much people are paid after all
- rrwo 4y ago
  I've seen computers improve lives At a former place of work the secretaries became experts at using Excel and even Access or Crystal Reports. I remember one had a beefy SQL book on her desk to make queries directly from the company's Oracle databases. Eventually they got newer titles of "executive assistant" with better pay. The IT department I worked at also lobbied for a policy, so that when computers were upgraded that they should get the newest and more powerful ones, since they were doing the bulk of computing.
atoav 4y ago
I think it already makes sense just by looking at computers. A computer ca. 2000 was a machine for productivity mostely. Sure you could play games, look at pictures, videos or similar things, but the whole design of everything in that computer was still very office like (cue pictures of people playing solitaire on windows xp). Look at e.g. Windows 10/11 today. Open the Start menu at a default installation and you will get a much more time wasting User Interface, candy crush: I am looking at you. Windows is no longer the operating system meant for professionals (even if you get the professional version), it is trying to sell you a sweet promise of a lazy joyful time at every corner. Windows has tried to become more like IOS or Android, which are arguably systems designed for consumption more than production. The internet has played it's role in all of this for sure, as it is no longer our bosses wallets they are after, but our attention and time.
- fruit2020 4y ago
  That’s why I moved from windows to mac. There’s no distraction for me there, aside from what I chose myself. Even linux OSes seem more distracting for some reason. Mayne Mac has a more cohesive feel
  - nicbou 4y ago
    Agreed. I hardly think about Mac OS. It just does its work with minimal frustration. Windows is more like that guy who won't take no for an answer.
- civilized 4y ago
  Yes. Windows looks disgusting. It's been getting worse for a long time. Windows 2000 was the best version and it's been downhill from there. I was lucky to be persuaded to switch to Mac in the mid-2000s and miss most of the awfulness. At this point, it's the worst of both worlds: baroque, distracting and confusing, but without genuine interest or charm. It's like staring at one of those failed neural net generated pictures where your visual cortex is vaguely stimulated but you have no idea what you're looking at. My kids will never touch Windows. It would feel like the electronic equivalent of letting them live on McDonald's and food coloring.
sgt101 4y ago
As per other comments - this isn't a decline in productivity, but a decline in growth of productivity as the tech is adopted. But I would argue that the internet has made people far more productive in many ways. Especially software people!
- rrwo 4y ago
  I worked in a office in late 1990s/early 2000s when it transitioned from Novell NetWare on DOS and Windows 3 to Windows 95 and 98 on the internet. People using the internet on their work machines added so many problems: - People spending a lot of time on shopping or porn. (This was before Facebook, and I don't think MySpace was around or popular yet.) - People downloading and installing software they shouldn't. Which ranged from pirated software to adware to malware, or even something benign that conflicted with the tools they needed for their job. (This was mostly fixed when we migrated people to Windows 2000.) - Viruses. - People set up file sharing nodes for music and porn. All of these problems came about once we added access to the internet. Admittedly, it should have been rolled out differently, perhaps using something like Windows NT with firewalled networks. But giving people access to the internet just allowed a lot of people who were naive to shoot themselves in the foot and waste a lot of resources fixing their computers.
stormbrew 4y ago
Productivity here doesn't mean "how much you get done" but "how much money is made off you". There may be some ways in which the two ideas correlate, but it's a complicated relationship and it's not even always in the same direction.

by rrwo 4y ago

mvdwoord 4y ago

They can also use the internet to quickly look up things, ask questions to a giant group of experts, not likely to be available in-company. As well as the countless other productivity boosting resources made available through it.

bratbag 4y ago
They can, but the question is if the two on balance produce a net negative across the population as a whole.

simmerup 4y ago

I’m more tempted to think the computers made them more productive and took away the complexity, allowing employers could pay them less. Productivity is just a measure in how much people are paid after all

rrwo 4y ago
I've seen computers improve lives At a former place of work the secretaries became experts at using Excel and even Access or Crystal Reports. I remember one had a beefy SQL book on her desk to make queries directly from the company's Oracle databases. Eventually they got newer titles of "executive assistant" with better pay. The IT department I worked at also lobbied for a policy, so that when computers were upgraded that they should get the newest and more powerful ones, since they were doing the bulk of computing.

atoav 4y ago

I think it already makes sense just by looking at computers. A computer ca. 2000 was a machine for productivity mostely. Sure you could play games, look at pictures, videos or similar things, but the whole design of everything in that computer was still very office like (cue pictures of people playing solitaire on windows xp). Look at e.g. Windows 10/11 today. Open the Start menu at a default installation and you will get a much more time wasting User Interface, candy crush: I am looking at you. Windows is no longer the operating system meant for professionals (even if you get the professional version), it is trying to sell you a sweet promise of a lazy joyful time at every corner. Windows has tried to become more like IOS or Android, which are arguably systems designed for consumption more than production. The internet has played it's role in all of this for sure, as it is no longer our bosses wallets they are after, but our attention and time.

fruit2020 4y ago
That’s why I moved from windows to mac. There’s no distraction for me there, aside from what I chose myself. Even linux OSes seem more distracting for some reason. Mayne Mac has a more cohesive feel
- nicbou 4y ago
  Agreed. I hardly think about Mac OS. It just does its work with minimal frustration. Windows is more like that guy who won't take no for an answer.
civilized 4y ago
Yes. Windows looks disgusting. It's been getting worse for a long time. Windows 2000 was the best version and it's been downhill from there. I was lucky to be persuaded to switch to Mac in the mid-2000s and miss most of the awfulness. At this point, it's the worst of both worlds: baroque, distracting and confusing, but without genuine interest or charm. It's like staring at one of those failed neural net generated pictures where your visual cortex is vaguely stimulated but you have no idea what you're looking at. My kids will never touch Windows. It would feel like the electronic equivalent of letting them live on McDonald's and food coloring.

sgt101 4y ago

As per other comments - this isn't a decline in productivity, but a decline in growth of productivity as the tech is adopted. But I would argue that the internet has made people far more productive in many ways. Especially software people!

rrwo 4y ago
I worked in a office in late 1990s/early 2000s when it transitioned from Novell NetWare on DOS and Windows 3 to Windows 95 and 98 on the internet. People using the internet on their work machines added so many problems: - People spending a lot of time on shopping or porn. (This was before Facebook, and I don't think MySpace was around or popular yet.) - People downloading and installing software they shouldn't. Which ranged from pirated software to adware to malware, or even something benign that conflicted with the tools they needed for their job. (This was mostly fixed when we migrated people to Windows 2000.) - Viruses. - People set up file sharing nodes for music and porn. All of these problems came about once we added access to the internet. Admittedly, it should have been rolled out differently, perhaps using something like Windows NT with firewalled networks. But giving people access to the internet just allowed a lot of people who were naive to shoot themselves in the foot and waste a lot of resources fixing their computers.

stormbrew 4y ago

Productivity here doesn't mean "how much you get done" but "how much money is made off you". There may be some ways in which the two ideas correlate, but it's a complicated relationship and it's not even always in the same direction.