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wow this is crazy. I guess this mean either more mobilization or straight out war. Didn't Putin say that crimea was a red line?

themodelplumber 4y ago
It's pretty wild. We've learned that Putin doesn't really think in fixed positions as much as he says, so it'll be interesting to see how things go from here. Putin prefers to think more situationally and kind of saves up his logic for the moment that arrives, previous statements notwithstanding. So any prior statements about Crimea were just as likely due to the burden of needing to reassure specific Russians living there at the time, and there's really no specific red line, even though one might be figured out looking back on all this someday...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dimitar 4y ago
It is war between Ukraine and Russia, regardless how Putin markets it. Ukraine hit an airfield inside Russia on the 25th of February. They are not going to use nukes
sorokod 4y ago
"more mobilization" Not likely since the mobilization system is saturated and not coping well with the current volume. In fact, the schedule regular mobilization has been delayed for thi reason. "red line" Many red lines have been declared and ignored.
Lazare 4y ago
More mobilization is impractical; the current mobilization seems to already be far more than the system can handle. And as for straight out war...the war went hot in Feb. Russia has been holding nothing back in its (so far futile) efforts to defeat Ukraine on the battlefield. And Crimea has been attacked many times already, it's clearly not a red line, nor has Putin expressed any clear "red lines". (Many red lines have been hinted it, many have been blown through without a response.)
- throwaway777845 4y ago
krisoft 4y ago
> straight out war A war you say? What would you call what was going on until now then?
- scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
  Just a special military operation obviously /s
- sorokod 4y ago
  Not to belittle what is experienced by Ukrainians, but the Russian Federation is truly not at war - yet. The mobilization has barley started and seems to be mismanaged, the industry has not been transformed to war effort, the legal system was not adjusted ( there is a challege to the legality of mobilization, military with contracts were allowed to break those) political system hasn't changed to support war style decision making. It is not clear if the RF can do all these things without tearing itself apart.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
    Yes, they do everything not to call this war a war. But practically speaking, even if they haven't transformed their industry into total war machine yet (they started the process already), the war has been going on, it's just a question of semantics.
  - johnthewise 4y ago
    Do you mean total war?
    - sorokod 4y ago
      I think there is a scale where the max setting says total war. Russia is nowhere near that setting.
    - Aachen 4y ago
      As someone not into war, I didn't know those words meant anything different from just large scale war or all out war. From Wikipedia, yes it seems total war is what is meant: > Total war is a type of warfare that includes any and all civilian-associated resources and infrastructure as legitimate military targets, mobilizes all of the resources of society to fight the war, and gives priority to warfare over non-combatant needs.
bambax 4y ago
What would "more mobilization" achieve? Will they fill the gaps in the bridge with corpses of ill-prepared middle-aged Russians?
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  It will deplete Russian population and weaken the Russian army even more. Nevertheless, Putin seem the kind of person who is afraid to admit defeat so I wouldn't count on him giving up too soon.

themodelplumber 4y ago

It's pretty wild. We've learned that Putin doesn't really think in fixed positions as much as he says, so it'll be interesting to see how things go from here. Putin prefers to think more situationally and kind of saves up his logic for the moment that arrives, previous statements notwithstanding. So any prior statements about Crimea were just as likely due to the burden of needing to reassure specific Russians living there at the time, and there's really no specific red line, even though one might be figured out looking back on all this someday...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dimitar 4y ago

It is war between Ukraine and Russia, regardless how Putin markets it. Ukraine hit an airfield inside Russia on the 25th of February. They are not going to use nukes

sorokod 4y ago

"more mobilization" Not likely since the mobilization system is saturated and not coping well with the current volume. In fact, the schedule regular mobilization has been delayed for thi reason. "red line" Many red lines have been declared and ignored.

Lazare 4y ago

More mobilization is impractical; the current mobilization seems to already be far more than the system can handle. And as for straight out war...the war went hot in Feb. Russia has been holding nothing back in its (so far futile) efforts to defeat Ukraine on the battlefield. And Crimea has been attacked many times already, it's clearly not a red line, nor has Putin expressed any clear "red lines". (Many red lines have been hinted it, many have been blown through without a response.)

throwaway777845 4y ago

krisoft 4y ago

> straight out war A war you say? What would you call what was going on until now then?

scyzoryk_xyz 4y ago
Just a special military operation obviously /s
sorokod 4y ago
Not to belittle what is experienced by Ukrainians, but the Russian Federation is truly not at war - yet. The mobilization has barley started and seems to be mismanaged, the industry has not been transformed to war effort, the legal system was not adjusted ( there is a challege to the legality of mobilization, military with contracts were allowed to break those) political system hasn't changed to support war style decision making. It is not clear if the RF can do all these things without tearing itself apart.
- hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
  Yes, they do everything not to call this war a war. But practically speaking, even if they haven't transformed their industry into total war machine yet (they started the process already), the war has been going on, it's just a question of semantics.
- johnthewise 4y ago
  Do you mean total war?
  - sorokod 4y ago
    I think there is a scale where the max setting says total war. Russia is nowhere near that setting.
  - Aachen 4y ago
    As someone not into war, I didn't know those words meant anything different from just large scale war or all out war. From Wikipedia, yes it seems total war is what is meant: > Total war is a type of warfare that includes any and all civilian-associated resources and infrastructure as legitimate military targets, mobilizes all of the resources of society to fight the war, and gives priority to warfare over non-combatant needs.

bambax 4y ago

What would "more mobilization" achieve? Will they fill the gaps in the bridge with corpses of ill-prepared middle-aged Russians?

hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
It will deplete Russian population and weaken the Russian army even more. Nevertheless, Putin seem the kind of person who is afraid to admit defeat so I wouldn't count on him giving up too soon.