4 ms·

Yes, but firmware backdoors are a thing. The same chip does not mean the same behavior.

by krasin 4y ago

Someone1234 4y ago
Let me see if I can nail down the argument here: - Chinese brand, with Chinese manufacturing: Backdoored. - Non-Chinese brand, with Chinese manufacturing: Safe. I mean, do people not realize that most "made in China" electronics is taken directly from a shipping container landing in California straight to reseller's warehouses? I mean, sure, they might spot check a few units here and there for QA, but it is direct from a Chinese factory to your mailbox without often receiving a secondary check. Even "final manufacturing in the US" is often taking the Chinese made casing and the Chinese made board and mating them in a small operation for a sticker.
- krasin 4y ago
  > Let me see if I can nail down the argument here: Wrong nail. My home router runs OpenWRT. While it's not a 100% guarantee to be safe, it's a lot better than any closed-sourced firmware. That said, if the choice is limited to closed-sourced firmware options, it's best to choose a reputable brand, so that the list of people who can access your router is limited to three letter agencies (US and China), as opposed to random scammers, like with all these malware-ridden Android phones from Aliexpress: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/android-malware-that-comes-preinstalled-are-a-massive-threat https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/android-malware-that-comes-... So, yes. Not buying network equipment on Aliexpress is a sound advice.
  - TheRealPomax 4y ago
    Why would it be better than the realtek chip found in so many devices that the odds of yours being bugged are proportional to how much you're wanted by the authorities. Consumer hardware doesn't have backdoors because the monumentous task required to keep that hidden isn't worth the non-payoff of not getting the military or state secrets that would make it worth the effort.
  - mrmuagi 4y ago
    This is just a switch but similiar 2.5gbe routers can run pfsense or opnsense with i225/i226 chips and intel/amd cpus. Servethehome covers quite a few of them.
  - mike_d 4y ago
    OpenWRT does not replace the firmware on any of the actual controllers inside the device, which is where a backdoor would likely reside.
- bioemerl 4y ago
  Safer indeed. I do not worry about people spying on me, I worry about empowering China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, or any such country that would happily eat our lunch if given the opportunity. Do not empower people who would happily screw you over. Keeping as much distance as possible from Chinese influence in all of the products you use in your home is essential to having a home that remains functional should we ever go to war.
duskwuff 4y ago
I would be surprised if this device had any firmware at all. It's an unmanaged switch; most of the device's behavior is embedded in the switch IC.
- pabs3 4y ago
  So the backdoor is in the switch IC? :)
- oliv3r 4y ago
  Yes they do. I have an ZyXEL XGS1010-12 (unmanaged) and it also runs Linux. The switch chip must be initialized, and the realtek SDK is based on Linux. You could do it with just an eeprom afaik, but seems to be actually more effort (and not possible on all of realtek's switch chips).

Yes, but firmware backdoors are a thing. The same chip does not mean the same behavior.

by krasin 4y ago

Yes, but firmware backdoors are a thing. The same chip does not mean the same behavior.

Let me see if I can nail down the argument here: - Chinese brand, with Chinese manufacturing: Backdoored. - Non-Chinese brand, with Chinese manufacturing: Safe. I mean, do people not realize that most "made in China" electronics is taken directly from a shipping container landing in California straight to reseller's warehouses? I mean, sure, they might spot check a few units here and there for QA, but it is direct from a Chinese factory to your mailbox without often receiving a secondary check. Even "final manufacturing in the US" is often taking the Chinese made casing and the Chinese made board and mating them in a small operation for a sticker.

krasin 4y ago
> Let me see if I can nail down the argument here: Wrong nail. My home router runs OpenWRT. While it's not a 100% guarantee to be safe, it's a lot better than any closed-sourced firmware. That said, if the choice is limited to closed-sourced firmware options, it's best to choose a reputable brand, so that the list of people who can access your router is limited to three letter agencies (US and China), as opposed to random scammers, like with all these malware-ridden Android phones from Aliexpress: https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/android-malware-that-comes-preinstalled-are-a-massive-threat https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/android-malware-that-comes-... So, yes. Not buying network equipment on Aliexpress is a sound advice.
- TheRealPomax 4y ago
  Why would it be better than the realtek chip found in so many devices that the odds of yours being bugged are proportional to how much you're wanted by the authorities. Consumer hardware doesn't have backdoors because the monumentous task required to keep that hidden isn't worth the non-payoff of not getting the military or state secrets that would make it worth the effort.
- mrmuagi 4y ago
  This is just a switch but similiar 2.5gbe routers can run pfsense or opnsense with i225/i226 chips and intel/amd cpus. Servethehome covers quite a few of them.
- mike_d 4y ago
  OpenWRT does not replace the firmware on any of the actual controllers inside the device, which is where a backdoor would likely reside.
bioemerl 4y ago
Safer indeed. I do not worry about people spying on me, I worry about empowering China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, or any such country that would happily eat our lunch if given the opportunity. Do not empower people who would happily screw you over. Keeping as much distance as possible from Chinese influence in all of the products you use in your home is essential to having a home that remains functional should we ever go to war.

duskwuff 4y ago

I would be surprised if this device had any firmware at all. It's an unmanaged switch; most of the device's behavior is embedded in the switch IC.

pabs3 4y ago
So the backdoor is in the switch IC? :)
oliv3r 4y ago
Yes they do. I have an ZyXEL XGS1010-12 (unmanaged) and it also runs Linux. The switch chip must be initialized, and the realtek SDK is based on Linux. You could do it with just an eeprom afaik, but seems to be actually more effort (and not possible on all of realtek's switch chips).