4 ms·

I have a lot of thoughts on this and not a lot of time to write them up. The things that really stand out to me are: - a lot of FSF projects are based around t

I have a lot of thoughts on this and not a lot of time to write them up. The things that really stand out to me are: - a lot of FSF projects are based around the premise of a multi user *nix system. This is an outdated model of usage. Systems are generally single-user or no-user (and instead part of a herd of application hosts). Human login rarely happens except to debug, and that debugging rarely occurs on the host. - the FSF has not done a good job of bringing new people in. They do not make a compelling case for their importance. I think this ties into the above - they don't have any compelling work to demonstrate for modern consumer freedom in one of the most important spaces - phones. This also ties into RMS - regardless of how you feel about the man, his presence in the FSF still continues to generate controversy that makes recruiting more difficult. - The FSF is supposed to address issues about freedom, privacy, etc, but they have completely missed the modern age of application usage models. Web apps, centralized auth, locked down phone OSes, etc. They have very little presence, and a lot of licensing mindshare has gone to non-copyleft FOSS (apache, mit, etc) - Richard Stallman famously corrects people who say Linux, by saying "GNU/Linux". This would be fine, except the vast majority of consumer electronics using Linux no longer ship with the GNU userspace. This should have been a huge red flag to the FSF that their efforts were being sidestepped entirely. The FSF does not appear to have a clear vision of the future, or concrete goals, and has lost significant amounts of influence through inaction. I do not know what the way forward looks like for them. Ultimately, I think the FSF "won" the mindset war, but has lost the overall battle.

the-printer 4y ago
This sounds like a level-headed analysis. Granted, I don't totally understand the history nor the practical nuances of all of the FSF's work, I do have a basic grasp of their overall influence and imprint on FOSS and am a happy Emacs user. It seems to me that all of this talk questioning the need for the foundation in the modern age is good. The ought to be a bevy of splinter groups advocating and developing for the rights of certain users.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  > a bevy of splinter groups advocating and developing for the rights of certain users. I'm curious what you mean by this. Free Software has always been about licensing software indiscriminately to all users. I much prefer that than a bunch of ideologically-driven splinter groups fighting for the rights of "certain users".
  - the-printer 4y ago
    I agree with you. But my choice of words was more a reflection of my observation that not all users care about software licensing rights. Between the mid-80s to now, the motivations and characteristics of the average computer user has changed dramatically. Not everyone necessarily shares the same concerns in the realm of software particularly. This whole arena is new to me, I must confess, so I'm thinking my way through where I stand in the middle of it all out loud to you. I know I'm probably a few weight classes above my own right now. Computers have been absorbed into the fragmented, chaotic world that we live in. I think that we are entering a period where lots of ideological enclaves will rupture in the software development world. If there ever was a "utopic" period of the FOSS movement, perhaps it is nearing its end.
dathinab 4y ago
Yup most of the GNU in GNU/Linux is kinda irrelevant by now. Sure it's still widely used all the time, but only out of convenience/backward compatibility, not because of conviction of it being good or anything.

the-printer 4y ago

This sounds like a level-headed analysis. Granted, I don't totally understand the history nor the practical nuances of all of the FSF's work, I do have a basic grasp of their overall influence and imprint on FOSS and am a happy Emacs user. It seems to me that all of this talk questioning the need for the foundation in the modern age is good. The ought to be a bevy of splinter groups advocating and developing for the rights of certain users.

smoldesu 4y ago
> a bevy of splinter groups advocating and developing for the rights of certain users. I'm curious what you mean by this. Free Software has always been about licensing software indiscriminately to all users. I much prefer that than a bunch of ideologically-driven splinter groups fighting for the rights of "certain users".
- the-printer 4y ago
  I agree with you. But my choice of words was more a reflection of my observation that not all users care about software licensing rights. Between the mid-80s to now, the motivations and characteristics of the average computer user has changed dramatically. Not everyone necessarily shares the same concerns in the realm of software particularly. This whole arena is new to me, I must confess, so I'm thinking my way through where I stand in the middle of it all out loud to you. I know I'm probably a few weight classes above my own right now. Computers have been absorbed into the fragmented, chaotic world that we live in. I think that we are entering a period where lots of ideological enclaves will rupture in the software development world. If there ever was a "utopic" period of the FOSS movement, perhaps it is nearing its end.

dathinab 4y ago

Yup most of the GNU in GNU/Linux is kinda irrelevant by now. Sure it's still widely used all the time, but only out of convenience/backward compatibility, not because of conviction of it being good or anything.