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Did anyone read the actual email thread? RMS is in there saying stuff like > In principle, it is good to remove it, but there is no principled reason why we mu

Did anyone read the actual email thread? RMS is in there saying stuff like > In principle, it is good to remove it, but there is no principled reason why we must remove it, if that means breaking a user-level feature that does work on non-MacOS systems. Basically it is one person(Po Lu) pushing for removing it, in part "to encourage users to switch to Linux", but it seems like he is getting a lot of push back from other contributors about why this is actually necessary, and that if he wants to remove it, there should be some more generalized equivalent functionality which would let current mac users port their deprecated usages to some other method.

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bombcar 4y ago
Nothing much (ok probably lots) infuriates me more than intentionally breaking software as a way to push you toward an OS, even if it is Linux.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  FWIW, Emacs is a GNU tool at the end of the day. Complaining about upstream changes negatively effecting MacOS is like complaining to Microsoft when your games don't run in WINE. It's the wrong tree to bark up, even if the project is community-led.
  - AceJohnny2 4y ago
    Yet, by the very nature of its freedom, if people are unhappy with the direction GNU Emacs goes, they can take it another way. Hence XEmacs. And hence why I run the Mituharu-branch [1] Emacs rather than upstream on Mac. [1] https://bitbucket.org/mituharu/emacs-mac/src/master/ https://bitbucket.org/mituharu/emacs-mac/src/master/ aka emacs-mac-app in MacPorts or railwaycat/emacsmacport in Homebrew
AceJohnny2 4y ago
It's saying something when RMS is the voice of pragmatism.
- deleted 4y ago
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- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  He's often quite pragmatic if you really listen to what he says, not just the memes people repeat about him. He doesn't demand utter purity from others, doesn't expect others to be as extreme as he personally chooses to be. He says that choosing to use Free software even just once is a good thing. That using Free software on windows is preferable to using only proprietary software on windows. That impure distros like Debian are better than Windows, even though they aren't good enough to be FSF-approved. That proprietary software like Steam getting ported to GNU/Linux is good since it will encourage more people to use GNU/Linux.
chungy 4y ago
Is there any reason `ns-do-applescript` couldn't be made as an Emacs package? That way it'd be trivial to remove it from Emacs proper and Mac users could still extend the editor as needed.
- taeric 4y ago
  My understanding from that thread is that there basically is a package way. The 'ns-do-applescript' is a c function, though. Providing potential speed benefits over the lisp based implementations.
  - jlokier 4y ago
    Emacs packages can include C code these days. It is loaded dynamically into Emacs then callable from Lisp. See for example the 'vterm' package.
    - taeric 4y ago
      If that is the case, what is the argument to have platform specific functions in the included c code?
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bombcar 4y ago

Nothing much (ok probably lots) infuriates me more than intentionally breaking software as a way to push you toward an OS, even if it is Linux.

smoldesu 4y ago
FWIW, Emacs is a GNU tool at the end of the day. Complaining about upstream changes negatively effecting MacOS is like complaining to Microsoft when your games don't run in WINE. It's the wrong tree to bark up, even if the project is community-led.
- AceJohnny2 4y ago
  Yet, by the very nature of its freedom, if people are unhappy with the direction GNU Emacs goes, they can take it another way. Hence XEmacs. And hence why I run the Mituharu-branch [1] Emacs rather than upstream on Mac. [1] https://bitbucket.org/mituharu/emacs-mac/src/master/ https://bitbucket.org/mituharu/emacs-mac/src/master/ aka emacs-mac-app in MacPorts or railwaycat/emacsmacport in Homebrew

AceJohnny2 4y ago

It's saying something when RMS is the voice of pragmatism.

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MichaelCollins 4y ago
He's often quite pragmatic if you really listen to what he says, not just the memes people repeat about him. He doesn't demand utter purity from others, doesn't expect others to be as extreme as he personally chooses to be. He says that choosing to use Free software even just once is a good thing. That using Free software on windows is preferable to using only proprietary software on windows. That impure distros like Debian are better than Windows, even though they aren't good enough to be FSF-approved. That proprietary software like Steam getting ported to GNU/Linux is good since it will encourage more people to use GNU/Linux.

chungy 4y ago

Is there any reason `ns-do-applescript` couldn't be made as an Emacs package? That way it'd be trivial to remove it from Emacs proper and Mac users could still extend the editor as needed.

taeric 4y ago
My understanding from that thread is that there basically is a package way. The 'ns-do-applescript' is a c function, though. Providing potential speed benefits over the lisp based implementations.
- jlokier 4y ago
  Emacs packages can include C code these days. It is loaded dynamically into Emacs then callable from Lisp. See for example the 'vterm' package.
  - taeric 4y ago
    If that is the case, what is the argument to have platform specific functions in the included c code?

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