6 ms·

I get that it's inconvenient and could be used nefariously. I'm not sure what kinds of worker protections airline staff have in Europe, but I can see why it mig

by rconti 4y ago

I get that it's inconvenient and could be used nefariously. I'm not sure what kinds of worker protections airline staff have in Europe, but I can see why it might be problematic that I'm tracking the employee as they drive their van full of lost luggage to my hotel. Still, it's my stuff, so I'm going to keep putting AirTags in every bag I travel with. I'm sorry, but.. what are they going to do? Ban me from the airline?

svnpenn 4y ago
- KerrAvon 4y ago
  Look at the actual cases, though. You had to be really aggro to get the permaban instead of just getting walked off the flight with a warning. IMHO, they were not aggressive enough.
- yreg 4y ago
  They cannot ban all of us.
  - svnpenn 4y ago
    yeah, they really can. Flights are a sellers market, they run near empty flights often. Plus less people are using AirTags than you think. Again, I think its a dumb rule. But don't think you are special and can just ignore it forever with no consequences.
    - rconti 4y ago
      I suspect I'm misreading your comment. You say "they run near empty flights often", which is not true based on current load factor data, at least in the US[1]; it's as high as ever. But you also say "it's a sellers market" which would imply high demand where they can afford to lose a few passengers (which would be true based on basic economics). So I suspect this is what you intended to say, unless I'm really misunderstanding something. 1. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LOADFACTOR https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LOADFACTOR
    - recursive 4y ago
      > run near empty flights often This is kind of amazing to hear. Roughly the last 10 flights I've been on have been completely full.
      - seanp2k2 4y ago
        e.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/13/european-carriers-are-flying-near-empty-planes-this-winter-to-keep-airport-slots.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/13/european-carriers-are-flying...
    - counttheforks 4y ago
- rconti 4y ago
  Why do you think I think I'm special? I simply think we're all humans, with basic rights, such as being able to keep tabs on our personal property, within reason-- which, surely, a small, light, unobtrusive tracker that has no known problematic failure modes, and which contains a battery that is within the checked baggage limits comports with? I made no suggestion that I should be able to shirk the rules while everyone else deserves to get caught. You're welcome to point and laugh at me if Lufthansa bans me and I have to stop putting AirTags in my bags so as not to be banned by other airlines, should they choose to adopt such an anti-consumer stance as well. I have no real issue with taking a calculated risk, the kinds of calculated risks we take all day every day. Surely you don't carefully read the terms of carriage on every airline ticket you purchase. I know I don't. I trust that the market will more or less treat us reasonably, and if one vendor does not, I can find another which does.
  - cardiffspaceman 4y ago
    - gruez 4y ago
      >You generally are not allowed to carry lithium batteries in checked baggage Mind linking to the relevant regulations that say that? The ones that I turned up[1] says that batteries are fine as long as they're in an installed device. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33128125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33128125
    - matthewmacleod 4y ago
      You generally are not allowed to carry lithium batteries in checked baggage. So your phone's lithium battery is not a problem as long as it's in your pocket. This is absolutely not true – guidelines from e.g. FAA and IATA are extremely clear that devices are permitted in both checked and carry-on baggage. There are some restrictions around bare cells, e-cigarettes etc. but for the most part these devices are no problem.
    - StrictDabbler 4y ago
      The battery in an AirTag is a standard CR2032 button cell, such as you'll find in thermometers, car keys, or similar small devices. Lithium batteries in checked luggage are limited to 0.3g. A CR2032 has 0.1g. It cannot start a fire while in the AirTag any more than your car keys can.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  What, do the baggage handlers at Lufthansa have free time to go searching for AirTags?
  - HWR_14 4y ago
    > do the baggage handlers at Lufthansa have free time to go searching for AirTags? "Detect airtags nearby" is an app you can download.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- woah 4y ago
  If we start allowing airtags in luggage, who knows what's next?
- Zigurd 4y ago
  Consumer-facing rules need credibility to have effect. Airlines have squandered customer trust for decades.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
xwdv 4y ago
- rconti 4y ago
  I am not sure what's with the tone of this comment, it seems a lot like a teacher who once told me I'd never be able to get a job if I put my feet on my desk, but, here I am. (26) Baggage equipped with lithium battery(ies) must be carried as carry-on baggage unless the battery(ies) is removed from the baggage. Removed battery(ies) must be carried in accordance with the provision for spare batteries prescribed in paragraph (a)(18) of this section. The provisions of this paragraph do not apply to baggage equipped with lithium batteries not exceeding: (i) For lithium metal batteries, a lithium content of 0.3 grams; or (ii) For lithium ion batteries, a Watt-hour rating of 2.7 Wh. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-175/subpart-A/section-175.10#p-175.10(a)(26) https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-I/s...
  - hdevalence 4y ago
    For reference, a typical CR2032 has 0.1g lithium metal content and ~0.6Wh capacity. https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2032.pdf https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2032.pdf
- golem14 4y ago
  Do the AirTags have lithium ion cells? I thought they have the no explosive cr2032 or thereabouts…
  - seanp2k2 4y ago
    a cr2032 is an example of a "lithium primary cell" meaning it's not rechargable, whereas "lithium ion" is rechargeable https://www.mpoweruk.com/lithiumP.htm https://www.mpoweruk.com/lithiumP.htm
  - MobiusHorizons 4y ago
    cr2032 are lithium, but not usually the same chemistry as rechargeable lithium ion. (side note, some cr2032 cells for use as battery backup for realtime clocks are actually rechargeable, which is pretty cool) However, as the sibling comment says, they are allowed because there is a threshold below which batteries are allowed.
ipython 4y ago
I don’t see why it’s problematic to see where your bag is. The employee isn’t driving from their home with your luggage- and if they were, there are bigger problems. You have a point where he may make multiple stops which may include the personal addresses of folks also on your flight. But I can’t imagine you have enough ability to match a person with an address this way.

by rconti 4y ago

svnpenn 4y ago

KerrAvon 4y ago
Look at the actual cases, though. You had to be really aggro to get the permaban instead of just getting walked off the flight with a warning. IMHO, they were not aggressive enough.
yreg 4y ago
They cannot ban all of us.
- svnpenn 4y ago
  yeah, they really can. Flights are a sellers market, they run near empty flights often. Plus less people are using AirTags than you think. Again, I think its a dumb rule. But don't think you are special and can just ignore it forever with no consequences.
  - rconti 4y ago
    I suspect I'm misreading your comment. You say "they run near empty flights often", which is not true based on current load factor data, at least in the US[1]; it's as high as ever. But you also say "it's a sellers market" which would imply high demand where they can afford to lose a few passengers (which would be true based on basic economics). So I suspect this is what you intended to say, unless I'm really misunderstanding something. 1. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LOADFACTOR https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LOADFACTOR
  - recursive 4y ago
    > run near empty flights often This is kind of amazing to hear. Roughly the last 10 flights I've been on have been completely full.
    - seanp2k2 4y ago
      e.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/13/european-carriers-are-flying-near-empty-planes-this-winter-to-keep-airport-slots.html https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/13/european-carriers-are-flying...
  - counttheforks 4y ago
rconti 4y ago
Why do you think I think I'm special? I simply think we're all humans, with basic rights, such as being able to keep tabs on our personal property, within reason-- which, surely, a small, light, unobtrusive tracker that has no known problematic failure modes, and which contains a battery that is within the checked baggage limits comports with? I made no suggestion that I should be able to shirk the rules while everyone else deserves to get caught. You're welcome to point and laugh at me if Lufthansa bans me and I have to stop putting AirTags in my bags so as not to be banned by other airlines, should they choose to adopt such an anti-consumer stance as well. I have no real issue with taking a calculated risk, the kinds of calculated risks we take all day every day. Surely you don't carefully read the terms of carriage on every airline ticket you purchase. I know I don't. I trust that the market will more or less treat us reasonably, and if one vendor does not, I can find another which does.
- cardiffspaceman 4y ago
  - gruez 4y ago
    >You generally are not allowed to carry lithium batteries in checked baggage Mind linking to the relevant regulations that say that? The ones that I turned up[1] says that batteries are fine as long as they're in an installed device. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33128125 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33128125
  - matthewmacleod 4y ago
    You generally are not allowed to carry lithium batteries in checked baggage. So your phone's lithium battery is not a problem as long as it's in your pocket. This is absolutely not true – guidelines from e.g. FAA and IATA are extremely clear that devices are permitted in both checked and carry-on baggage. There are some restrictions around bare cells, e-cigarettes etc. but for the most part these devices are no problem.
  - StrictDabbler 4y ago
    The battery in an AirTag is a standard CR2032 button cell, such as you'll find in thermometers, car keys, or similar small devices. Lithium batteries in checked luggage are limited to 0.3g. A CR2032 has 0.1g. It cannot start a fire while in the AirTag any more than your car keys can.
fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
What, do the baggage handlers at Lufthansa have free time to go searching for AirTags?
- HWR_14 4y ago
  > do the baggage handlers at Lufthansa have free time to go searching for AirTags? "Detect airtags nearby" is an app you can download.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
woah 4y ago
If we start allowing airtags in luggage, who knows what's next?
Zigurd 4y ago
Consumer-facing rules need credibility to have effect. Airlines have squandered customer trust for decades.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

xwdv 4y ago

rconti 4y ago
I am not sure what's with the tone of this comment, it seems a lot like a teacher who once told me I'd never be able to get a job if I put my feet on my desk, but, here I am. (26) Baggage equipped with lithium battery(ies) must be carried as carry-on baggage unless the battery(ies) is removed from the baggage. Removed battery(ies) must be carried in accordance with the provision for spare batteries prescribed in paragraph (a)(18) of this section. The provisions of this paragraph do not apply to baggage equipped with lithium batteries not exceeding: (i) For lithium metal batteries, a lithium content of 0.3 grams; or (ii) For lithium ion batteries, a Watt-hour rating of 2.7 Wh. https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-I/subchapter-C/part-175/subpart-A/section-175.10#p-175.10(a)(26) https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-I/s...
- hdevalence 4y ago
  For reference, a typical CR2032 has 0.1g lithium metal content and ~0.6Wh capacity. https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2032.pdf https://data.energizer.com/pdfs/cr2032.pdf
golem14 4y ago
Do the AirTags have lithium ion cells? I thought they have the no explosive cr2032 or thereabouts…
- seanp2k2 4y ago
  a cr2032 is an example of a "lithium primary cell" meaning it's not rechargable, whereas "lithium ion" is rechargeable https://www.mpoweruk.com/lithiumP.htm https://www.mpoweruk.com/lithiumP.htm
- MobiusHorizons 4y ago
  cr2032 are lithium, but not usually the same chemistry as rechargeable lithium ion. (side note, some cr2032 cells for use as battery backup for realtime clocks are actually rechargeable, which is pretty cool) However, as the sibling comment says, they are allowed because there is a threshold below which batteries are allowed.

ipython 4y ago

I don’t see why it’s problematic to see where your bag is. The employee isn’t driving from their home with your luggage- and if they were, there are bigger problems. You have a point where he may make multiple stops which may include the personal addresses of folks also on your flight. But I can’t imagine you have enough ability to match a person with an address this way.