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Man I hate this. I'm terrified of Zelle (and, even worse, Venmo). There's no reason at all to use these things - except that everybody around me insists on us

Man I hate this. I'm terrified of Zelle (and, even worse, Venmo). There's no reason at all to use these things - except that everybody around me insists on using them. My kids Venmo with their friends all the time. My wife and her friends Venmo constantly. More and more services won't even take a check, they'll only take Zelle or Venmo. And every time I use these fragile services I'm opening myself to having my entire bank account wiped out with little recourse. (And, of course, the people I owe money to like the lienholder on my car and my mortgage broker will sure as hell still expect their money).

teeray 4y ago
Would good opsec for these services be to open another checking account for them to limit the blast radius?
loeg 4y ago
> And every time I use these fragile services I'm opening myself to having my entire bank account wiped out with little recourse. No. Sending money with Zelle does not expose you to having your account wiped out. Receiving money, there is a minute chance a transfer might be reversed. But that’s all. Don’t use Zelle to accept payment for goods/services.
bombcar 4y ago
One defense is to just have two banks, one for "real bills" and one for Zelle/Venmo "play money" bills. Then at worst you're out the play money. Make sure it's set so the real money can only push into the play money account.
- 5d8767c68926 4y ago
  How do I lock down my "real" account? For instance, I want to disable the ability for anybody to pull money, and I must manually push into a billing account which only maintains limited funds. I briefly looked into this at one point and as best as I could tell, Chase would only let you disable ACH on business accounts.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    You can'd directly disable ACH, though if you only have a savigns account it may help. But ACH has much more defenses against someone pulling money than Zelle and friends do.
pb7 4y ago
You should know that your entire account can be wiped out with the information that's on one of your checks. It's time to leave that archaic technology in the past like the rest of the world.
- esotericimpl 4y ago
crazygringo 4y ago
Huh? As long as you don't participate in a scam and use basic security, what are you worried about? I have no idea what you mean about the services being fragile or how your "entire bank account" would be wiped out. This article is talking almost entirely about scams. Presumably you're smart enough not to send your whole bank account's contents to a random person who calls you. And if you're not, well, it doesn't really matter if you're being scammed via Zelle/Venmo, or via paper check, or via wire transfer, or via ACH.
- commandlinefan 4y ago
  > it doesn't really matter if you're being scammed via Zelle/Venmo, or via paper check, or via wire transfer, or via ACH. It does, though. If scammers scam via paper check, wire transfer or ACH, the full force of the government comes down on them and they actually get put in jail if they get caught. If they scam via Zelle or Venmo, too bad, so sad.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    No; Zelle and ACH are exactly the same from this point of view.
    - commandlinefan 4y ago
      I wish you were right, but the linked article suggests otherwise.
marcinzm 4y ago
The article basically disagrees with your concerns. You’re fine unless you yourself make a payment using Zelle to someone else. Which is no different than you mailing a check to a fraudster. Not sure why the bank should protect you from yourself to that degree.
jpm_sd 4y ago
My sympathies. I am fortunate in that my wife and I are in agreement that we want to stay far away from Venmo, Zelle and similar services. Our kids deal in cash or nothing. As for services: cash, check, CC or GTFO. I also (so far) have been unwilling to trust Plaid. Plain old crappy wire or ACH transfers for me, thanks.
solardev 4y ago
We use it to pay people we already know for transactions we've verified, like a beer here or there or splitting gas or whatever. No way I'd send a large sum of a money to a stranger / new company over Venmo. It's useful for replacing small change in your wallet, not for replacing credit card and proper purchase protections.

teeray 4y ago

Would good opsec for these services be to open another checking account for them to limit the blast radius?

loeg 4y ago

> And every time I use these fragile services I'm opening myself to having my entire bank account wiped out with little recourse. No. Sending money with Zelle does not expose you to having your account wiped out. Receiving money, there is a minute chance a transfer might be reversed. But that’s all. Don’t use Zelle to accept payment for goods/services.

bombcar 4y ago

One defense is to just have two banks, one for "real bills" and one for Zelle/Venmo "play money" bills. Then at worst you're out the play money. Make sure it's set so the real money can only push into the play money account.

5d8767c68926 4y ago
How do I lock down my "real" account? For instance, I want to disable the ability for anybody to pull money, and I must manually push into a billing account which only maintains limited funds. I briefly looked into this at one point and as best as I could tell, Chase would only let you disable ACH on business accounts.
- bombcar 4y ago
  You can'd directly disable ACH, though if you only have a savigns account it may help. But ACH has much more defenses against someone pulling money than Zelle and friends do.

pb7 4y ago

You should know that your entire account can be wiped out with the information that's on one of your checks. It's time to leave that archaic technology in the past like the rest of the world.

esotericimpl 4y ago

crazygringo 4y ago

Huh? As long as you don't participate in a scam and use basic security, what are you worried about? I have no idea what you mean about the services being fragile or how your "entire bank account" would be wiped out. This article is talking almost entirely about scams. Presumably you're smart enough not to send your whole bank account's contents to a random person who calls you. And if you're not, well, it doesn't really matter if you're being scammed via Zelle/Venmo, or via paper check, or via wire transfer, or via ACH.

commandlinefan 4y ago
> it doesn't really matter if you're being scammed via Zelle/Venmo, or via paper check, or via wire transfer, or via ACH. It does, though. If scammers scam via paper check, wire transfer or ACH, the full force of the government comes down on them and they actually get put in jail if they get caught. If they scam via Zelle or Venmo, too bad, so sad.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  No; Zelle and ACH are exactly the same from this point of view.
  - commandlinefan 4y ago
    I wish you were right, but the linked article suggests otherwise.

marcinzm 4y ago

The article basically disagrees with your concerns. You’re fine unless you yourself make a payment using Zelle to someone else. Which is no different than you mailing a check to a fraudster. Not sure why the bank should protect you from yourself to that degree.

jpm_sd 4y ago

My sympathies. I am fortunate in that my wife and I are in agreement that we want to stay far away from Venmo, Zelle and similar services. Our kids deal in cash or nothing. As for services: cash, check, CC or GTFO. I also (so far) have been unwilling to trust Plaid. Plain old crappy wire or ACH transfers for me, thanks.

solardev 4y ago

We use it to pay people we already know for transactions we've verified, like a beer here or there or splitting gas or whatever. No way I'd send a large sum of a money to a stranger / new company over Venmo. It's useful for replacing small change in your wallet, not for replacing credit card and proper purchase protections.