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Financial Security/responsibility is getting wayyy too complex for the layperson: * Find a decent bank with 2FA. None of the big banks are decent, they have mi
by kylehotchkiss 4y ago
Financial Security/responsibility is getting wayyy too complex for the layperson:
* Find a decent bank with 2FA. None of the big banks are decent, they have minimum balances, piles of fees. Credit unions are good, but you want one that isn't too local, which can limit you to credit unions specific to military/veterans/families
* Have multiple checking accounts. Only one of these checking accounts has a debit card attached, or exposed account number anywhere. Never ever hold a balance in this account. Keep the balance in the other account.
* Never use that debit card for anything but the ATM and bank teller authentication. In fact, don't even carry it with you, in case you lose your wallet or somebody tries to take it. Not every bank makes it easy to turn debit card off.
* Only use ACH for rent and loan payments. Never hold a balance in the account used for this. Many rent companies and loan providers are not properly securing that number. Your account number can't easily be changed.
* Keep the bank you use a secret from everybody including friends and family. Only the few payees and your payroll provider need to know.
* For sending money to friends if everybody has iPhones, Apple's Cash functionality is good enough.
* Get a respectable credit card with zero fraud liability. Use it for everything. Have a backup at home. Now your bank is insulated from the outside world. If somebody tries to take your wallet, just give it to them. It's easier to get a card reissued and transactions overturned in that scenario than it is to get drivers licence replaced.
* Don't move outside the country or do a USPS address change to a PO Box. Banks have been known to just shut people's accounts down and mail the balance as a check in these scenarios. Patriot act something something.
This is banking in USA. It was designed for a trust-based society 70 years ago that's still mostly trustful but needs to consider the culture has changed a bit. If the Fed would require member banks implement secure 2FA and the option to disable external ACH from accounts upon request, we wouldn't need to do all this.
- hervature 4y ago> Find a decent bank with 2FA. None of the big banks are decent, they have minimum balances, piles of fees. Can you clarify this. Are big banks not secure enough or are they not decent because of the minimum balance and "piles of fees"? I would rather pay something for security.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- cowtools 4y agoBeyond 2FA, some type of chaumian cash like https://taler.net/en/ https://taler.net/en/ might help too. But the problem is really downgrade attacks. There are multiple payment systems (bank wire, check, credit card ) and if there is one insecure way to make payments, then the whole system is broken.
- bittercynic 4y ago>...you want one that isn't too local... What's the problem with local credit unions?
- bombcar 4y agoBiggest issue is accessing your account if you move; I've never really had any other issue come up.
- smeej 4y agoEven a tiny local credit union is great if they're part of the co-op. The vast majority of credit unions in the U.S. are, and you can use any co-op branch or ATMs just like your home credit union's branches or ATMs. It's brilliant, and in my experience, so much more accessible than the giant banks who are often regionally concentrated.
- _23sd 4y agoThere are limitations, it's not always just like your home credit union. One of the reasons one might go to a bank branch when we have ATMs and online banking is to get a cashier's check, which can't be done through co-op. My online credit union can FedEx them overnight so it's not too bad, but I switched away from a local credit union when I moved because they weren't able to do services like that except at a branch.
- smeej 4y agoMy mom got a cashier's check through the co-op in March to buy her house. She's in New Hampshire and her credit union is in Oklahoma. I don't know why it didn't work for you, but it was no trouble for her.
- lukeschlather 4y agoIn my experience accessing my account after moving has been a huge issue with conventional banks; I've never had a problem with my credit union accounts.
- hgsgm 4y ago
- doubled112 4y agoBanking in Canada is rough too. TD Canada Trust didn't let me use more than 8 alphanumeric characters in my password until about 2015. The only let you use call or SMS for 2FA to this day. They are charging $16.95/mo for a chequing account right now. This is pretty standard across the big banks.
- auxym 4y agoI believe Scotia/Tangerine are still 6-digits only for passwords. Really. And I have yet to see any Canadian financial institution (whether bank, brokerage, credit union, etc) that supports anything else than SMS for 2FA. The situation is quite rough indeed.
- angst_ridden 4y agoRBC allows use of their mobile app as 2FA. I don't believe it uses SMS under the hood. I'm not arguing it's necessarily more secure. I haven't audited it or looked into how it works.
- spaetzleesser 4y agoIs there any reason why they limit the length of passwords or don’t allow certain characters? It makes no sense to me.
- freeone3000 4y agoIt's so you can enter your password over a touch-tone phone.
- WorldMaker 4y agoAs fun general rules of thumb: Hard 8 character limits are often a side-effect of old COBOL "databases" in the backend somewhere. Hard 16 character limits are sometimes a side-effect of old versions of Active Directory in the backend somewhere or new versions of Active Directory in certain backward compatibility operation modes/certain group policies. Hard character limits in general are often a sign that someone is storing the plaintext somewhere they shouldn't be. (Soft character limits today are mostly to avoid possible hash function DDoS.)
- commandlinefan 4y ago> Never ever hold a balance in this account Impossible to _never_ hold a balance, since every employer wants to do direct deposit... your only hope is that you can get your money out of there before some scammer gets it. The chances of that happening are low, but not zero.
- em-bee 4y agoi have one bank account to receive my salary, one (or more) to make regular payments and one for day to day expenses. the latter has just enough balance to cover my average spending and gets refilled as needed.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- sidewndr46 4y agoDifferent account for direct deposit from the account used for paying bills. Problem solved.
- davchana 4y agoOne account for incoming money. Only your employer knows about it. One account for holding money. Nobody knows it except you. One account for all money outgoing. Only payees knoq about it. You transfer all incoming from above first account to second asap. You transfer money from second to third only on per need basis. Capital One, Discover offers free multiple checking accounts.
- throw7 4y ago> if everybody has iPhones, Apple's Cash functionality is good and google pay? this may surprise you but in my immediate family only 1 (out of 6) has an iphone. we basically use zelle to transfer cash around. I personally will not use paypal or venmo, but I do use google pay.
- recursive 4y agoWhat's the issue with paypal and venmo?
- heliodor 4y agoVenmo doesn't offer 2fa with an authenticator app. Only text message 2fa. Leaves you open to sim swap attacks, which are common and the carriers are doing nothing to prevent.
- judge2020 4y agoProbably due to the paypal horror stories; note that Paypal acquired Venmo in their Braintree acquisition: https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/19/venmo-now-lets-you-find-and-pay-other-nearby-venmo-users/ https://techcrunch.com/2014/02/19/venmo-now-lets-you-find-an...
- pb7 4y agoPayPal has a long shiny history of screwing people over and Venmo is now not only owned by PayPal but the app is hot garbage and gets worse with every update (probably due to the aforementioned ownership).
- Maursault 4y agoI use PayPal, not as heavily as I have in the past, but I have been scammed by about a dozen sellers, and in all cases, PayPal refunded my money. I've never heard of PayPal screwing over customers, only that it being owned by eBay is annoying because eBay gets two sets of fees on payments for sellers.
- 4y ago
- kwesthaus 4y agoDon't forget about preemptive security freezes at credit bureaus, which you have to do for each one individually. /r/personalfinance recommends 7 by default [0], but there are many more [1]. [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/identity_theft/ https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/identity_theft... [1]: https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/documents/cfpb_consumer-reporting-companies-list.pdf https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/documents/cfpb_consumer-...
- nilespotter 4y agoGreat info, I had a freeze on 6/7 of these. What are the ramifications of freezing LexisNexis?
- yamtaddle 4y agoWhen I did it, all it meant was anyone offering a line of credit to me if I'm not present right in front of them is supposed to call me to verify I want it. It's not even really any inconvenience to have "frozen" credit. Why the everloving fuck that's not the default, but something you have to request, I have no idea.
- agloeregrets 4y ago> Credit unions are good, but you want one that isn't too local, which can limit you to credit unions specific to military/veterans/families Having seen a bit of the inside: Local credit unions are generally pure trash at security. Hell, a local one had an internal meltdown from the HR person looking up prior employee's personal account to harass them with a LIST OF THEIR PERSONAL PURCHASES. (WTAF)
- spaetzleesser 4y agoThe same happens in health care. The system is full of traps that a customer/patient can’t reasonably navigate.
- Arrath 4y ago> * Never use that debit card for anything but the ATM and bank teller authentication. In fact, don't even carry it with you, in case you lose your wallet or somebody tries to take it. Not every bank makes it easy to turn debit card off. I take this one a step farther and don't even have a debit card, just an atm/cash card. It cannot be used to make purchases anywhere, only to get cash from an ATM. Any and all purchases I make are either cash, or with a credit card. Some banks may look at you weird when you request such a card, or act like they don't do them (anymore), but my credit unions have accommodated me.
- tristor 4y ago> I take this one a step farther and don't even have a debit card, just an atm/cash card I did this too, unfortunately I went through multiple banks as they rolled out debit cards for all accounts and stopped offering ATM cards, until now I unfortunately have a debit card. It seems this isn't really an option anymore.
- hey2022 4y agoI keep my debit card locked. If I need to use it—which happens once or twice a year—I unlock it and then immediately lock back again.
- birdman3131 4y agoYour bank account number is by design semi public knowledge. Every check you have ever written has it at the bottom. It was never meant to be private.
- ev1 4y agoI have never received checks with any bank account I have opened in my life. Are they even offered anymore?
- zippergz 4y agoYou have to order them. They don't just give them to you.
- davchana 4y agoDiscover gives free standard checks, as many as you want.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoYes, they are used all the time in the US. The numbers on the bottom are the routing number and account number of the payer. Anyone can make and sell them, and anyone can buy them. https://www.costcochecks.com/home https://www.costcochecks.com/home
- brewdad 4y agoYou have to pay for them but yes you can still get checks. My order of 80 checks should last me the rest of my life.
- Arrath 4y agoAbsolutely. I currently rent from an elderly couple and the simplest method of paying rent is the classic check.
- kylehotchkiss 4y agoThe fewer entities that have it, the better. Banks probably aren’t giving it out freely. Any ACH charge attempted against it will deduct balance, and fraud liability repayments (if the bank agrees to help) will take as long as the bank takes to recover funds
- itake 4y ago> * Never use that debit card for anything but the ATM and bank teller authentication. In fact, don't even carry it with you, in case you lose your wallet or somebody tries to take it. Not every bank makes it easy to turn debit card off. Some businesses only accept debit cards (like WinCo [0]). :-/ I guess you can just not do business with them. > * For sending money to friends if everybody has iPhones, Apple's Cash functionality is good enough. I wish... but how do you transfer money internationally? I don't think Apple Cash is adopted abroad yet. [0] - https://www.wincofoods.com/customer-service/faqs/ https://www.wincofoods.com/customer-service/faqs/
- nilespotter 4y agoThey take cash.
- zippergz 4y agoYes, I specifically do not do business at stores and gas stations that only take debit cards.
- kylehotchkiss 4y ago> I wish... but how do you transfer money internationally? Wise.com. I lived abroad for a bit and relied entirely on Wise (well, they were called transferwise then). Could send money abroad faster than I could send funds to anybody in USA. Of course, any international financial service is very KYC heavy and can suspend access to you/lock your funds at any time so always have a backup plan ready as wire transfers are really scary (foreign banks don't want to release funds? no recourse for you!)
- kome 4y agowhy banking in Europe is much much better?
- diordiderot 4y agoBecause we don't have freedom like America /s
- snotrockets 4y agoACH is undoubtedly covered under regulation E. $50 (waived by many banks) and some time is the most that can be taken from you.
- davchana 4y agoDiscover & Capital One offers free online only no fee checking account. To add, use special emails for zelle, not your regular phone number or regular email.