6 ms·

I wonder what could be improved with todays knowledge while keeping it under 2MB.

by agumonkey 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
CyberDildonics 4y ago
Why would you keep it under 2MB?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- flenserboy 4y ago
  For one, to put retro systems to great use. For another, to keep as much cruft/unnecessary bells & whistles from being present as possible. Just because the space is there doesn't mean it has to be used.
  - CyberDildonics 4y ago
    What specific retro systems have a 2MB limit?
    - bombcar 4y ago
      2.88 for Extra High Density - pretty rare outside of Japan iirc. http://209.68.14.80/ref/fdd/formatKB2880-c.html http://209.68.14.80/ref/fdd/formatKB2880-c.html
      - tssva 4y ago
        3COM NETBuilder II routers had 2.88MB floppies. I once spent an entire day tracking down a local supplier with a 2.88MB floppy drive and floppies in stock, so we could upgrade the software on a few routers being affected by a Vines/IP bug.
    - Findecanor 4y ago
      A "1.44 MB floppy" has that capacity for files when formatted with the FAT file system from MS-DOS. The unformatted capacity is actually closer to 2 MB but a proper file system has disk-space overhead for metadata and check sums. You could have a file system with much less disk-space overhead than FAT, and there are many out there. A demo disk would typically be read-only, and in particular there are some read-only file-systems that are really space-optimised, Another option would be to treat the disk sectors as a single compressed file which the bootloader decompresses into a RAM-disk image which the OS then boots from, but that would require a bit more than 2 MB of RAM.
    - flenserboy 4y ago
      It's not 2 mb in particular; honestly, I'd say 4 mb is the practical starting limit once you're into 16/32 bit CPUs — a Mac Plus / Classic would go to 4, for instance, and every speck of memory free under that made a difference in performance. 2 is a nice limit for total system size, as it allows for (as can be seen in QNX) a very capable, flexible OS, while leaving headroom for programs to run.
- agumonkey 4y ago
  I restricted myself, I wanted to say 1MB. I can't help but to find the min-max of everything. Well at least fantasize about what could be.
lproven 4y ago
I don't think there is anything today that comes close to equalling it, and very definitely nothing that can improve on it.
- agumonkey 4y ago
  Even without knowing it, I'm sure it's far from perfect and may enjoy a few tweaks here and there.
  - lproven 4y ago
    The QNX demo, from 25Y ago? Oh, yes. The miracle is that it worked at all, not that it's very complete. The full OS was a ~100MB download: https://archive.org/details/qnx-neutrino-rtos-x86-runtime-kit-6.3.0-sp3 https://archive.org/details/qnx-neutrino-rtos-x86-runtime-ki...
    - bmacho 4y ago
      The full OS was 1.4 MB, but they've distributed some additional software as well.
      - lproven 4y ago
        Well, no, not really, AFAIK. But it depends what you define as "the full OS". It is mainly an embedded OS for routers and engine-control units and traffic lights. For that role, it doesn't need a GUI or a desktop or dev tools or a network stack. So are they part of the "full OS"? It depends where you stand, and how you look at it. The Demo Disk contains a lot more than 1.4MB of code. It's more like 3-4MB of code, but that does not mean it is "the full OS".

I wonder what could be improved with todays knowledge while keeping it under 2MB.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

CyberDildonics 4y ago

Why would you keep it under 2MB?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
flenserboy 4y ago
For one, to put retro systems to great use. For another, to keep as much cruft/unnecessary bells & whistles from being present as possible. Just because the space is there doesn't mean it has to be used.
- CyberDildonics 4y ago
  What specific retro systems have a 2MB limit?
  - bombcar 4y ago
    2.88 for Extra High Density - pretty rare outside of Japan iirc. http://209.68.14.80/ref/fdd/formatKB2880-c.html http://209.68.14.80/ref/fdd/formatKB2880-c.html
    - tssva 4y ago
      3COM NETBuilder II routers had 2.88MB floppies. I once spent an entire day tracking down a local supplier with a 2.88MB floppy drive and floppies in stock, so we could upgrade the software on a few routers being affected by a Vines/IP bug.
  - Findecanor 4y ago
    A "1.44 MB floppy" has that capacity for files when formatted with the FAT file system from MS-DOS. The unformatted capacity is actually closer to 2 MB but a proper file system has disk-space overhead for metadata and check sums. You could have a file system with much less disk-space overhead than FAT, and there are many out there. A demo disk would typically be read-only, and in particular there are some read-only file-systems that are really space-optimised, Another option would be to treat the disk sectors as a single compressed file which the bootloader decompresses into a RAM-disk image which the OS then boots from, but that would require a bit more than 2 MB of RAM.
  - flenserboy 4y ago
    It's not 2 mb in particular; honestly, I'd say 4 mb is the practical starting limit once you're into 16/32 bit CPUs — a Mac Plus / Classic would go to 4, for instance, and every speck of memory free under that made a difference in performance. 2 is a nice limit for total system size, as it allows for (as can be seen in QNX) a very capable, flexible OS, while leaving headroom for programs to run.
agumonkey 4y ago
I restricted myself, I wanted to say 1MB. I can't help but to find the min-max of everything. Well at least fantasize about what could be.

lproven 4y ago

I don't think there is anything today that comes close to equalling it, and very definitely nothing that can improve on it.

agumonkey 4y ago
Even without knowing it, I'm sure it's far from perfect and may enjoy a few tweaks here and there.
- lproven 4y ago
  The QNX demo, from 25Y ago? Oh, yes. The miracle is that it worked at all, not that it's very complete. The full OS was a ~100MB download: https://archive.org/details/qnx-neutrino-rtos-x86-runtime-kit-6.3.0-sp3 https://archive.org/details/qnx-neutrino-rtos-x86-runtime-ki...
  - bmacho 4y ago
    The full OS was 1.4 MB, but they've distributed some additional software as well.
    - lproven 4y ago
      Well, no, not really, AFAIK. But it depends what you define as "the full OS". It is mainly an embedded OS for routers and engine-control units and traffic lights. For that role, it doesn't need a GUI or a desktop or dev tools or a network stack. So are they part of the "full OS"? It depends where you stand, and how you look at it. The Demo Disk contains a lot more than 1.4MB of code. It's more like 3-4MB of code, but that does not mean it is "the full OS".