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Communism as the only opposite to corrupt, massively unequal crony capitalism? Sounds like you're a communist, comrade. Except of course, that your whole respo

Communism as the only opposite to corrupt, massively unequal crony capitalism? Sounds like you're a communist, comrade. Except of course, that your whole response amounts to "waaah, Julian called me a sexist". Yes, I did. You are a sexist.

philwelch 15y ago
I was identifying an unfair rhetorical tactic on your part. Not every criticism of abusive corporate and government practice amounts to communism, not every criticism of religious intolerance amounts to witchcraft, not every criticism of homophobia amounts to pedophilia, and not every criticism of a vague, venting blog post vaguely complaining about sexist treatment without really illustrating it amounts to sexism. I really don't give a shit whether you think I'm a sexist or not: frankly, the fact that you jump to that rather than actually engaging any of my points says more about you than about me. What I do give a shit about is people like you outright sabotaging reasonable discourse through nothing more than personal attacks.
- JulianMorrison 15y ago
  Every word of what I wrote was meant literally and intended to describe the very real phenomenon of sexists who want to avoid the label "sexist" while being sexist, and who use their majority power in vote driven web sites, or their shout-down power in comment threads, to drive away anyone who attempts to apply the label "sexist" to them. And actually the same applies to the various other disapproved labels, such as "racist" and "homophobic" - in all these cases, liberal gains in the last 100 years or thereabouts have made owning the label in public uncomfortable. But so long as you can weasel around the label, the deed itself carries little opprobrium. And so we get this conspiracy of mutual non recognition. It's pretty clear, given that, that your picks for "scary label" are nonsense and evidence failed comprehension, or refused comprehension. Witches are not on the upside of a power gap, seeking to continue their witchy abuses while avoiding the label "witch". Sexists are.
  - philwelch 15y ago
    > It's pretty clear, given that, that your picks for "scary label" are nonsense and evidence failed comprehension, or refused comprehension. Witches are not on the upside of a power gap, seeking to continue their witchy abuses while avoiding the label "witch". Sexists are. "My witch-hunt is just, because in my case, the witches actually exist and really do secretly control society." The real problem is that complicated issues like this turn into exercises of identity. It happens on both sides; your side is filled with self-identified feminists immediately siding with anyone who makes an accusation of sexism. Straightforward statements pointing out that no sexism has actually been demonstrated or that it's rhetorically unfair to shield oneself from criticism for being emotional are themselves taken as expressions of sexism, in much the same way that anyone calling for moderation or pacifism was, in the Cold War, accused of being in cahoots with the communists. The result of this is that you alienate thoughtful people. On several occasions I've spoken out on HN against genuine sexism and in favor of genuine feminist interests. But I'm not interested in getting caught up in a tribalist ideological groupthink, and I have thoughtful criticism for dishonest rhetoric, and so you read me as "sexist", in the classic "you're either with us or against us" mindset (rephrased by contemporary leftists as "you're either part of the solution or part of the problem").
burgerbrain 15y ago
You should probably be aware that such statements are bordering on libelous. Be aware of your jurisdiction if you are going say things like that.
- JulianMorrison 15y ago
  I live in Britain, libel capital of the known universe. Calling people names over here is as reckless as smoking while sitting on a ten foot heap of gunpowder. Fear me, for I am fearless.

philwelch 15y ago

I was identifying an unfair rhetorical tactic on your part. Not every criticism of abusive corporate and government practice amounts to communism, not every criticism of religious intolerance amounts to witchcraft, not every criticism of homophobia amounts to pedophilia, and not every criticism of a vague, venting blog post vaguely complaining about sexist treatment without really illustrating it amounts to sexism. I really don't give a shit whether you think I'm a sexist or not: frankly, the fact that you jump to that rather than actually engaging any of my points says more about you than about me. What I do give a shit about is people like you outright sabotaging reasonable discourse through nothing more than personal attacks.

JulianMorrison 15y ago
Every word of what I wrote was meant literally and intended to describe the very real phenomenon of sexists who want to avoid the label "sexist" while being sexist, and who use their majority power in vote driven web sites, or their shout-down power in comment threads, to drive away anyone who attempts to apply the label "sexist" to them. And actually the same applies to the various other disapproved labels, such as "racist" and "homophobic" - in all these cases, liberal gains in the last 100 years or thereabouts have made owning the label in public uncomfortable. But so long as you can weasel around the label, the deed itself carries little opprobrium. And so we get this conspiracy of mutual non recognition. It's pretty clear, given that, that your picks for "scary label" are nonsense and evidence failed comprehension, or refused comprehension. Witches are not on the upside of a power gap, seeking to continue their witchy abuses while avoiding the label "witch". Sexists are.
- philwelch 15y ago
  > It's pretty clear, given that, that your picks for "scary label" are nonsense and evidence failed comprehension, or refused comprehension. Witches are not on the upside of a power gap, seeking to continue their witchy abuses while avoiding the label "witch". Sexists are. "My witch-hunt is just, because in my case, the witches actually exist and really do secretly control society." The real problem is that complicated issues like this turn into exercises of identity. It happens on both sides; your side is filled with self-identified feminists immediately siding with anyone who makes an accusation of sexism. Straightforward statements pointing out that no sexism has actually been demonstrated or that it's rhetorically unfair to shield oneself from criticism for being emotional are themselves taken as expressions of sexism, in much the same way that anyone calling for moderation or pacifism was, in the Cold War, accused of being in cahoots with the communists. The result of this is that you alienate thoughtful people. On several occasions I've spoken out on HN against genuine sexism and in favor of genuine feminist interests. But I'm not interested in getting caught up in a tribalist ideological groupthink, and I have thoughtful criticism for dishonest rhetoric, and so you read me as "sexist", in the classic "you're either with us or against us" mindset (rephrased by contemporary leftists as "you're either part of the solution or part of the problem").

burgerbrain 15y ago

You should probably be aware that such statements are bordering on libelous. Be aware of your jurisdiction if you are going say things like that.

JulianMorrison 15y ago
I live in Britain, libel capital of the known universe. Calling people names over here is as reckless as smoking while sitting on a ten foot heap of gunpowder. Fear me, for I am fearless.